UK ,Japan and Europe have no plans

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nec208

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Why is the UK ,Japan and Europe have no plans of sending people in space in the next 15 to 20 years? No plans of sending people in space in the future or in the next 15 to 20 years?

When the US and China wants to go to the moon.

What happen to Russia they where a big player and now it is just the US and China.
 
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PiotrSatan

Guest
Youre ignorant. Have you even made any research at all? Europe, and all other super powers want to go to the moon between 2015 and 2020 and later, land on mars in 2030s, and Europeans want to establish first base on mars (or moon I forgot) in 2050s. Of course these are just plans. But I can tell you, every space faring nation is way more advanced in space missions than you. NASA is unfunded according to what I have heard. So as I mentioned once, while Europe and China enjoy their lives on Titan and Mars, you'll just crawl out of Earth's atmosphere. Yes for Europe! today Europe, tomorrow the world!
 
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mark_d_s

Guest
About the UK space industry...

"What that showed was that space is the second highest contributor per capita in wealth of all industries except for oil and gas extraction; so, per worker, the space industry contributes the most to the economy."

source http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8249694.stm

And don't forget Richard Branson's Virgin Galactic - which looks set to becoming the first commercial human launch system.

As for Europe as a whole, decisions were made a long time ago to use funding for robotic missions & space telescopes. I wish ESA would do more, but until EU legislation increases it's budget, I think we're stuck with what we've got for now, but see the link below

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7482232.stm

Just maybe things are looking up!
 
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neutrino78x

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PiotrSatan":39t8x69h said:
But I can tell you, every space faring nation is way more advanced in space missions than you.

Well, I always enjoy national rivalry. This is easy: America has landed men on the moon. We are the only nation to do so. Europe, to my knowledge, has no manned space vehicle.
 
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nec208

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So in other words Japan and Europe wants to do it but have not made up their mind yet?

And there is no UK that have any plans or talking ?
 
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hiro2002

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nec208":3a7lm01o said:
So in other words Japan and Europe wants to do it but have not made up their mind yet?
Yes.
If Japan (and Europe) decide to build manned spacecraft, we and they could build it within 10 years.
But it needs a lot of money.... and a mental preparation.
If the fatal accident occured, history of the space development of Japan would ends.

I wish that Japan build mannd spacecraft.
But there is a question .... "Why should we build manned spacecraft?"
We must prepare answer of the question.
 
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JonClarke

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Both ESA and the Japanese send people into space and having been doing so for years. They just chose to do so on other people's spacecraft.
 
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Booban

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If any European government tried to build a human space ship they would be voted out of office in a heart beat, end of story.

In Europe money goes to social welfare, which it actually does in the US too, but Europe is not a super power and doesn't need a space ship for international status as there is (yet) no other reason for an independent manned space program.

The question Hiro asked at the end of his post if the central one, and even why NASA has budget problems too.
 
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EarthlingX

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hiro2002":hxevu6eg said:
nec208":hxevu6eg said:
So in other words Japan and Europe wants to do it but have not made up their mind yet?
Yes.
If Japan (and Europe) decide to build manned spacecraft, we and they could build it within 10 years.
But it needs a lot of money.... and a mental preparation.
If the fatal accident occured, history of the space development of Japan would ends.

I wish that Japan build mannd spacecraft.
But there is a question .... "Why should we build manned spacecraft?"
We must prepare answer of the question.
Because explorers are followed by settlers, or at least industry. If Antarctica would be open for commercial exploitation, it would be crowded. Check the heat about the north pole and the area.

I'm guessing that the main reason against space is fear, fear from rockets, that are mainly used as a weapon, fear from unknown risks, and belief in financial loss, resulting from operations.

Space expansion will at some point bring weapons in space, even current satellites could harm someone if they fall in populated area. This is why some kind of international peace keeping force could help, get everyone involved, act as a police. This is a very touchy subject and safely under the carpet.

Next thing is the ownership of space assets. If there would be some reasonable limits on claims, i think it could move fast and after the first claim, that would be internationally recognized at least among the space capable nations, it would soon be followed by more such claims. I think, that government based international organizations should be able to make claims, after fulfilling agreed upon requirements.

This are not 60s anymore. Satellites are launched at a rate of couple per week, on a regular basis, it's not so uncommon anymore to have two or three spaceships docked to a space station at the same time.

Rocket tech is no rocket tech anymore, almost anyone can do it, as we can see on CNN.
Europe is not without private initiative in suborbital and orbital fight, just ESA is a bit slow on the question. I wish they had gone forward with the Hermes project, maybe after the constitutional changes something happens.

If USA would have a 10 year gap, it would be a great stimulation for ESA to move. ISRO is already buying Suyuzes and Russians are readying the successor.
Ariane doesn't need much fixing, to be able to launch people, Russians already have launch platform nearby, it's just a matter of deciding to move and finance it.

Current financial crisis could actually help, if building a space infrastructure is seen as building a highway/railway/seaway to space, to open it for Earth expansion, not just exploration.
 
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EarthlingX

Guest
European Ministers in Prague prepare a roadmap towards a common vision :
http://www.esa.int/esaHS/SEMIE2YRA0G_index_0.html

Ministers from the 29 European Space Agency and European Union Member States will meet in Prague on 23 October for the 1st EU-ESA International Conference on Human Space Exploration, to prepare a roadmap leading to the definition of a common vision and strategic planning for space exploration.
 
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nec208

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The problem is people have gone in space and back so the motto has been there and done that and countries don't like to spend $$$$ on money they do not have.

The 60' , 70's and little 80s was golden time where people where interested in space not now. May be going to Mars or having moon base may spark a interested in space again among countries .

The Asain countries seem to be more interested than Europe or south America .The USSR and the US lost interested in space in the 90's .

If the cold war was still on we would have moon base by now or have gone to Mars it was the status thing and Americans would have no problem spending the $$$$ to have a better space program or army than than the USSR .Now that the cold war is over and big debt it is scaling down the money spent on the army and space program.

If the US had a moon base and gone to mars more people would say NASA is doing some thing than just going up and down and think this is like taking money and putting it in the trash can.IF NASA did some thing the people would support it and get interested .

What people don't understand is there is spin offs of having space station like ISS and going up into space and back like advances in medicine ,electronics ,technology ,robotics ,material so on .But people don't uderstand this .

If money was not the problem and the private sector can pull of making a space station and rocket there are lots and lots money to be made in space just having space station making stuff in space.Much of what we have now would not be here if the space program did not get started in the 50's and 60'.

Has space mining has of now is not realistic do to the technology and it does not look like it will be in the next 40 years from now.
 
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Booban

Guest
nec208":dbradfo1 said:
If the US had a moon base and gone to mars more people would say NASA is doing some thing than just going up and down and think this is like taking money and putting it in the trash can.IF NASA did some thing the people would support it and get interested .

What people don't understand is there is spin offs of having space station like ISS and going up into space and back like advances in medicine ,electronics ,technology ,robotics ,material so on .But people don't uderstand this .

What spin offs? Compared to what price? For 17 billion a year I hope they invent some things, but I'm pretty sure you can research such technologies without putting some guys in a shuttle and sending it up and down.

Yes, going to the moon or mars seems like it's doing something, but it is still putting money in the trash can if it doesn't generate new money.
 
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EarthlingX

Guest
Some news from latest conference:
The ambitions of Europe in space
In his opening speech, the newly re-elected president of the European Commission, José Manuel Durão Barroso, noted that space is an enabling tool allowing Europe to face some fundamental challenges: fighting the economic crisis, ensuring the well-being of our citizens, tackling climate change, finding ways to unleash our full potential for innovation and job creation, and to bring about a true knowledge society, as well as reinforcing Europe’s position in the world scene.
 
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HopDavid

Guest
The great race to space:
GloriousFuture.jpg

Serious space development is just over the horizon
 
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nec208

Guest
EarthlingX":27jqar9r said:
Some news from latest conference:
The ambitions of Europe in space
In his opening speech, the newly re-elected president of the European Commission, José Manuel Durão Barroso, noted that space is an enabling tool allowing Europe to face some fundamental challenges: fighting the economic crisis, ensuring the well-being of our citizens, tackling climate change, finding ways to unleash our full potential for innovation and job creation, and to bring about a true knowledge society, as well as reinforcing Europe’s position in the world scene.


Wow this looks like a good start.
 
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menellom

Guest
PiotrSatan":1bzvbooh said:
Youre ignorant. Have you even made any research at all? Europe, and all other super powers want to go to the moon between 2015 and 2020 and later, land on mars in 2030s, and Europeans want to establish first base on mars (or moon I forgot) in 2050s. Of course these are just plans. But I can tell you, every space faring nation is way more advanced in space missions than you. NASA is unfunded according to what I have heard. So as I mentioned once, while Europe and China enjoy their lives on Titan and Mars, you'll just crawl out of Earth's atmosphere. Yes for Europe! today Europe, tomorrow the world!

WANT is not the same as CAN

Let's think about the major players for a moment here.

First we have the ESA, and while I imagine they'd like to go to the Moon between 2015 and 2020 and land on Mars by 2030 (who wouldn't) they won't. The current best case scenario for the ESA having a crewed spacecraft is finishing a man-rated Ariane 5 and using an Orion capsule. The man-rated Ariane 5 wouldn't be done before 2019 without a massive increase in funding (the ESA's budget would have to be doubled at least), and then of course there's the fact that the plan hinges on America continuing with development of the Orion capsule.

China's been making claims that it's current program will land on the Moon by the end of the decade... of course let's remember that this is China's third space program in a little over two decades (China has a habit of completely scrapping space programs at the first bump in the road), that their lunar plans require rockets and spacecraft that haven't even been planned yet nevermind designed or built, and that their much of their plans for 'conquering space' are dependent on China inventing and perfecting technology (that does not yet exist) within the next decade (case in point one plan calls for the development of a maglev launch rail).

Then there's Russia, who's once mighty space program has essentially been downgraded to the position of 'LEO taxi for the rich, famous, and other people's astronauts'. They had originally hoped to be in a position to replace the Soyuz spacecraft within the next few years with the Kliper spacecraft but we all know how that turned out. The new Angara rocket isn't expected to make it's first test flight before 2012 (later if the budget is cut further) and even then it won't have a new spacecraft until late this decade.

Meanwhile, despite all the hysterics, NASA is getting a budget increase (modest but an increase nevertheless) and will be spending the next few years doing research and development for rockets and spacecraft that aren't simply slight upgrades of decades old concepts and designs, and the American space industry will be taking off (economically and literally) providing the US with significantly greater access to space.

If you ask me, America doesn't have a thing to worry about.
 
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nec208

Guest
I thought China was to be working on space docking and building small space station some time this year or next year? I mean really China space program has lot of catch up to do before they are close to the US space program. And what they have only been in space 3 or 4 times now where the US and the USSR have been in space 100's of times.

Well Japan and Europe want to go in space but is there any press report yap here is your money now start working on a rocket?
 
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Gravity_Ray

Guest
HopDavid":14mxfe9n said:
The great race to space:
GloriousFuture.jpg

Serious space development is just over the horizon

Dang that was a funny cartoon. :lol:

I think this cartoon actually answers the question from the OP the best.

By the way I'm holding most of my comments until I see Falcon 9 fly, I guess then I'll know.
 
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CoreDave

Guest
Its not really a question of if these countries want to go into space. Its more a question of do they have anything to gain by spending the huge sums of developing independant launch systems. They can already buy the service from Russia at a fraction of the cost if they so desire.

Our current technology for launching people into space is so wasteful as to be nigh on pointless. Things will change as technology changes. In all likelyhood countries like the UK will still not have a state owned launch system development but will instead seek to foster commercial vehicals that they can make use of.

Space will not be a meaningful destination for mankind until launch is taken out of the hands of governments and technology enables a massive reduction in the costs of getting there. Until then the only sensible thing to do is wait (and maybe punt some funding into R&D or COTS like programs).
 
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