Ukraine wants to join NASA programs

dobbins · Nov 2, 2005

KIEV, November 2 (RIA Novosti) - Ukraine is interested in participating in NASA programs, the country's prime minister said Wednesday. "We want to join the current NASA programs," Yuriy Yekhanurov said during a meeting with heads of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration in Washington. He said Ukraine could gain access to NASA projects, including future flights to the Moon, after signing a relevant framework agreement and a memorandum. Yekhanurov also said a NASA delegation could visit Ukraine in late spring 2006. http://en.rian.ru/world/20051102/41971721.html

nacnud · Nov 2, 2005

That zenith rocket of theirs could come in useful...

CalliArcale · Nov 2, 2005

This is very interesting. I wonder how the Ukraine sits with respect to the Iran Non-Proliferation Act? Am I reading correctly the implication that the Ukraine is moving away from Rosaviacosmos, with whom they've worked for decades, since long before it was called Rosaviacosmos (or anything, for that matter)? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

dobbins · Nov 2, 2005

I wish I had more information on this. The story was just enough to whet my apatite. If I run across anything else I'll post it.

CalliArcale · Nov 2, 2005

Consider my appetite whetted as well. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> We have a few members with good access to Russian space information, so hopefully they can shed some light. Syndroma? photoneye? Anybody? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

askold · Nov 2, 2005

It's not "the" Ukraine - the country's name is "Ukraine". We don't say the Latvia, or the France or the California. Sorry, I'm Ukrainian and I'm a little sensitive about this.

trailrider · Nov 2, 2005

[tongue-in-cheek mode = on] It's a good thing we won the Cold War! Otherwise we'd be using Russian rocket engines and spacecraft, and letting other countries into our very own private space adventures! Wait a minute...! <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> [tongue-in-cheek mode = OFF] The more the merrier! IMHO, if HUMANkind is to explore space in person, we need to get as many PEOPLE (countries) involved as possible! Competition is fine. It can help spur development. But exploration of the solar system, starting with the Moon, and then Mars and the NEA's is probably going to be better served by co-operation. I just hope the recently-passed bills relieving Russia of the Iran Non-proliferation provisions regarding space can (1) be speedily worked out in the Conference Committee, so it can be passed by both houses of Congress, and signed into law by the President; and (2) that it will apply to other former Soviet Bloc countries such as Ukraine! Ad Luna! Ad Aries! Ad Astra!

shoogerbrugge · Nov 2, 2005

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />I wonder how the Ukraine sits with respect to the Iran Non-Proliferation Act? Am I reading correctly the implication that the Ukraine is moving away from Rosaviacosmos<hr /></blockquote> Mmm, there are 3 matters I'd like to add. First, I'd say that until recently Ukraine might be done more to transfer "illegal" weapons then Russia. The most recent and dangerous case was that arms smugglers got their hands on 10 Kh-55 (minus warheads) Tomahawski's. They were so kind to sell 5 of those to Iran and 5 of them to China. Other well known cases of illegal weapons reaching the axis of evil is some high quality radar being sold. But this off course was before the Orange revolution, what changed since then, nobody really knows. This is off course off set with the large number of Ukrainian troops in Iraq. Secondly, the Ukraine has been trying to face west with their spaceprogramme for some time. Due to the fact that Russia is trying to Russianise their operations. Cutting foreign suppliers and the like. The blame culture is pretty strong, when ever there is a failure it almost everytime ends up that one party blames the other. However, I doubt that the Ukraine had to sell its products through Rosaviacosmos. This is the arms and space dealer of Russia. The Ukraine has its own company like it. It is possible though that companies in the Ukraine were used as subcontractors. I can't find the name of the state arms dealer in the Ukraine though. ow here is the website of the Ukraine space agency: website in English

CalliArcale · Nov 2, 2005

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />It's not "the" Ukraine - the country's name is "Ukraine". <hr /></blockquote> It's usually said that way in English, though. I have no idea why that useage arose. It's a bit like how in French you do say "the Ukraine/the Latvia/the France/the California/" but not "the Haiti". And yes, I do know the country's name is Ukraine. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> It's a hard habit to break, because the common useage in English has for decades (at least) been "the Ukraine". <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

CalliArcale · Nov 2, 2005

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />First, I'd say that until recently Ukraine might be done more to transfer "illegal" weapons then Russia. The most recent and dangerous case was that arms smugglers got their hands on 10 Kh-55 (minus warheads) Tomahawski's. They were so kind to sell 5 of those to Iran and 5 of them to China. Other well known cases of illegal weapons reaching the axis of evil is some high quality radar being sold. But this off course was before the Orange revolution, what changed since then, nobody really knows. This is off course off set with the large number of Ukrainian troops in Iraq. <hr /></blockquote> I know there has been illegal arms activity going on (with or without the awareness of the Ukrainian government), but I'm still curious whether the Iran Non-Proliferation Act would have to be amended or whether NASA would already be free to buy stuff from Ukraine. (See, I'm working on changing that habit of saying "the Ukraine". <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) Does it specifically say only Russia is excluded? Or do all former Soviet republics get the same ban? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

askold · Nov 2, 2005

The background of the usage is a little subtle - and it helps to know the Russian or Ukrainian language (and politics). But to make a long story short - Russians have always viewed Ukraine as "the surrounding lands" of Russia and have done everything to try and wipe out any independent Ukrainian identity - especially during the Soviet days. They almost succeded too. Language is a powerful instrument and can be used for oppression.

darkenfast · Nov 2, 2005

Askold, in Russian the name is pronounced "Oo-kri-ee-na". How is it pronounced in Ukrainian? We occasionally have some Ukrainians from a sister city here, and I'd like to say it properly. And, for everyone, part of the "the" problem is that, in English, "the Ukraine" sounds like a region, like "the Mid-west", as opposed to a country. A subtle, yet important distinction when you are a former Soviet Republic, and there are people saying that Belarus and Ukraine should be united with Russia. Actually, the distinction doesn't occur in Russian, which has no articles.

askold · Nov 2, 2005

In Ukranian it's pronounced Oo-kra-yi-na. Oo as in pool. kra as in o"kra" - except you roll the "r" - like Spanish guerilla. yi as in yeast. na as in nod. Ukranian is not heavilly accented, but a slight accent would occur on "yi". Hope that helps.

radarredux · Nov 2, 2005

> We don't say the Latvia, or the France or the California./i> It is "The Gambia" though, and I think there is one other country in which "The" is part of the name. By the way, I think NASA used to have a facility in The Gambia -- one of the abort runways for the Shuttle.

CalliArcale · Nov 2, 2005

Actually, there are quite a few with "the" in their official name, although most of them have descriptive names. "The Netherlands" is an interesting example; that name is very much like "the midwest" in the example given a few posts up in that it literally means "the low countries". Many countries have formal names with "the" in them, such as The United States of America, The United Kingdom, The People's Republic of China, The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.... It's a longer list than one might think. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

syndroma · Nov 2, 2005

> hopefully they can shed some light. Syndroma? Russian media and forums aren't good sources of information about Ukrainian space program. Of course, if you're interested in heavy blames and political fights, I can provide some. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> There's not much to say without politics involved. I prefer to stay silent.

nacnud · Nov 2, 2005

Another one that springs to mind is Ivory Coast, often referred to as the Ivory Coast even though the the is superfluous.

CalliArcale · Nov 2, 2005

Apparently, like Ukraine, they have instructed that their nation be referred to a different way. Officially, the Ivory Coast is now Cote D'Ivoire. (Oddly, in French that's "la Cote D'Ivoire", but in English it is not "the Cote D'Ivoire".) But I digress.... <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I say more power to Ukrainian space companies. They should sell their services where they can get the most return on the investment -- be that the US or someplace else. I could see them pairing up with a country lacking a domestic launch system. If they're smart, they'll sell their services to many countries. Never put all your eggs in one basket, especially in the space business. Fortunes can change fast, and an insufficiently diversified company may end up going down with a cancelled contract. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

shoogerbrugge · Nov 2, 2005

Well, you can sure of one thing, most space companies in Ukraine or Russia are suffeciently diversified. Whether its a good thing remains to be seen. But due to the collapse of the internal market, most companies had to switch to different products.

CalliArcale · Nov 2, 2005

I'm actually not referring to diversification of products but diversification of clients -- which is sometimes, but not always, the same thing. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

krrr · Nov 2, 2005

And, for everyone, part of the "the" problem is that, in English, "the Ukraine" sounds like a region, like "the Mid-west", as opposed to a country. That's part of the problem, with "the" it's "only" a region, not a country. In German, the Czech republic before WW2 used to be called "die Tschechei". Here additionally the -ei suffix also carried a slightly negative meaning. The name sounded particularly ugly when uttered by Nazi speakers. Therefore, lately the artificial name "Tschechien" (Czechia) has been introduced and is now widely used in german-speaking countries.

askold · Nov 2, 2005

Yes, language is a powerful weapon. "Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me" - don't believe it.

Ukraine wants to join NASA programs

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