Was There A Manned Soviet Moon Landing?

[apollomissions]

An account related by a former Russian space scientist who defected from the Soviet Union to France in 1969 stated the Soviets actually landed men on the moon. The story is interesting because the claim is made that while there Soviet cosmonauts had a strange encounter with “alien intelligences.”<br /><br />In an interview carried in <i>Beyond Magazine</i> (February 1969) Professor Lev Mohilyn, who claims he participated in the Soviet space program before his defection relates the account of that unknown Soviet mission. On June 5, 1968, according to his story, a manned Russian rocket was launched from a base in the Ural Mountains. Its destination: the moon. It carried two cosmonauts (Ilya and Evgeny), who successfully made it to the moon in three days. After accomplishing a soft landing they left their craft to carry out some explorations on the lunar surface. However, while out there, according to Professor Mohilyn, a “mechanical monster” attacked Evgeny and killed him. Ilya rushed back to the spaceship and upon orders blasted off the moon’s surface. She (Ilya was a lady cosmonaut) eventually safely completed the return trip to Earth.<br /><br /><br /><br />[Comment – If the account were true would the public have been told?] <br /><br />

 

[qso1]

If this were true, will probably never know it. Officially, the Soviets denied even being in a moon race during the Apollo era. Then in 1989 as a result of Gorbachevs Glasnost and perestroika policies, pretty much the whole account of their lunar program came to light. The big admission being one the U.S. intel community was aware of in part anyway. The four unsuccessful N-1 test flights (U.S. intel knew of 3 during the 1960s).<br /><br />apollomissions:<br />Comment – If the account were true would the public have been told?<br /><br />Me:<br />Being that it allegedly occured in the Soviet Union and given their penchant for secrecy. I'd say the answer is no, the public would not be told. They were not even told about the Russian lunar program as its pretty much known to have actually played out.<br /><br />The Soviet government picked up on the growing number of critics in the U.S. who criticized Apollo on cost grounds. The Soviets were promoting their unmanned Luna missions as a cost effective answer to Apollo at the time. But in 1989, they admitted they participated in the moon race and fessed up to the flight test failures of their Saturn-V counterpart the N-1.<br /><br />This account however, strikes me as a campy science fiction movie rather than an actual event, but thats just me. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[SpeedFreek]

Well, it looks to me like pure fantasy.<br /><br />My reason for thinking this? Type "Mohilyn" into Google. There are only 2 pages found on the whole web that mention this 'name' (although it may become 3 pages when google trawls through this thread!).<br /><br />The first google 'hit' is a spanish page called QuintaDimension.com digital Magazine on science fiction, terror and fantasy. It talks about moon creatures in movies and literature, and mentions the supposed article in Beyond magazine.<br /><br />The second 'hit' is a dutch forum, talking about making up <b> fantasy names! </b><br /><br />It seems to me that, if this were a real name, there would be more sites mentioning different people with this family name. Seeing as there is no mention of this name anywhere except the a site referring to the "Beyond" article and a webforum about making up fantasy names, I feel the answer is pretty clear.<br /><br />Maybe that first link is the only evidence that the Beyond article actually existed at all.<br /><br />Maybe the Beyond article did actually exist but deliberately chose a name they knew didn't exist.<br /><br />Draw your own conclusions... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000">_______________________________________________<br /></font><font size="2"><em>SpeedFreek</em></font> </p> </div>

 

[dgm1]

That is too funny. In all of our space travel no one has ever seen even the slightest hint of intelligent non-human life but on the Soviets first trip to the moon they are attacked and a man killed by alien monsters. That is friggin hilarious.<br /> Seriously, how would they hide this stuff. With all of the moon surveys and the scrutiny of the Soviets through the 60 and 70's how would they pull it off? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[apollomissions]

Speedfreek –<font color="yellow"> Well, it looks to me like pure fantasy…</font><br /><br />Yes, I agree. It’s one of those strange stories that popped up during the years of the early space program. It may not have come up on <i>das Google</i> before but I’ll bet you it might come up now. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Qso1 – <font color="yellow">This account however, strikes me as a campy science fiction movie rather than an actual event, but thats just me.</font><br /><br />No Qso, I don’t think it’s just you. It’s a pretty campy sounding story.<img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><br /><br />But my question was: <b><i>If</i></b> the account were true, would the public have been told?<br />

 

[SpeedFreek]

<i> <b> If </b> the account were true, would the public have been told? </i><br /><br />Well, I might imagine the public would have been told about the successful moon landing, as it would have been a real coup for the USSR, but I doubt they would have been told about the spider-creatures! Imagine the military potential of such a discovery. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000">_______________________________________________<br /></font><font size="2"><em>SpeedFreek</em></font> </p> </div>

 

[a_lost_packet_]

<font color="yellow">apollomissions - [Comment – If the account were true would the public have been told?] </font><br /><br />Look at it this way:<br /><br />In 1957 the USSR launched Sputnik. It was a tiny little sphere with a radio transmitter that went "Beep beep beep." It changed the way the world thought about space.<br /><br />Can there be any doubt whatsoever that if Russia had landed cosmonauts on the moon they would have proudly notified the world?<br /><br />Give me a break. This "story" and "interview" are pure garbage meant for bottomfeeders.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>

 

[dgm1]

Yeah really. They could have easily claimed a successful moon landing and withheld the moon monster story. Why deny the whole thing? They could have beaten us to the moon without telling us of the evil mechs running amok up therewhich makes me wonder. What kind of people would knowingly let brave men of another nation go on to face such creatures? I mean, they could have given a warning or a heads up somehow. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[qso1]

apollomissions:<br />But my question was: If the account were true, would the public have been told?<br /><br />Me:<br />And I did answer that question but just to refresh, I would say the public would not be told because the Soviet government was secretive about their space activities when necessary and in the Apollo era, they were mum about their manned lunar program. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[vogon13]

The Soviets would never have risked a manned (personed?) lunar landing with out first flying a succesful manned circum-lunar flight (like our Apollo 8).<br /><br />Such a flight never occured.<br /><br />They did fly a modified man rated Soyuz module on such a trajectory, with (IIRC) turtles on board, but they didn't have the cajones to try it with humans.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Additionally:<br /><br />I am curious why the first flight to land on the moon carried a man/woman crew? Their pattern during the (IIRC) Voskhod flights, was to get the 'bugs' out with a male crew, and then fly a female. That craft was also extremely automated, realistically, a manned lunar lander would/ could not be automated to any significant degree. Their sample return missions never came close to 100% success rate.<br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[qso1]

If one looks at the timeline...the article says the launch occured on June 5, 1968. The N-1s first test flight which ended in a massive explosion on or above the pad, did not take place till February 21, 1969. Between this and what you mentioned, it appears whoever claimed this mission occured did not realize or care that anyone familiar with the actual events would see the time discrepancy.<br /><br />Then there is that base in the Ural mountains.<br /><br />The Soviet lunar program launch site was at Baikonur Cosmodrome. One of the pads there was nearly completely destroyed in an N-1 explosion. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

There is no evidence I can find that "Lev Mohilyn" actually existed, let alone had any connection with the Soviet space program. <br /><br />Since the end of the USSR we have huge amounts on information on what was done and what was planned, what worked and what did not. We know about nuclear powered IBCM designs, nasty biological and radiological warheads, names of all the peoploe ever trained as cosmonauts, the personal notes and diraries of all the leading people. We know how the Russians planned to do to the Moon and why they did not.<br /><br />Just some of the more obvious errors in this story.<br /><br />As other pointed, the Russians have never launched from the Urals<br /><br />As others pointed out the N1 hadn't even flown in 1968.<br /><br />Also the Proton wasn't even ready for a circum-lunar mission in 1968.<br /><br />The Soviet LK lunar lander carried one person, not two.<br /><br />This story is inconsistent with everything we know about the Soviet lunar program.<br /><br />It was also impossible for the Soviets to have launched a clandestine mission to the Moon. The launch would have been detected, the spacecraft tracked, the communications would intercepted by civilians and military in many countries.<br /><br />Lastly the USSR did not carry out clandestine crewed missions. Even launch failures were announced. if there had been a mission to the Moon that had come to grief there would have been announcements about that mission after launch, after TLI, when it entered lunar orbit, and after landing. Even if the mission came to grief there would be some kind of announcement to this. <br /><br />This story is not one to be lightly cast aside, but hurled away with great force.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[qso1]

JonClarke:<br />It was also impossible for the Soviets to have launched a clandestine mission to the Moon. The launch would have been detected, the spacecraft tracked, the communications would intercepted by civilians and military in many countries.<br /><br />Me:<br />JonClarke brings up a good point here.<br /><br />In addition to what he mentioned, there was a group known as the Kettering group IIRC that used to track Soviet launch activity and one time (1965-66) they tracked one with an unusually high inclination. By backtracking it, they were instrumental in locating a previously unknown Soviet military launch site. Can't recall if it was Kapustin Yar or Plesetsk. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

That would have been Plesetsk, up near the Artcic circle, some 180 km souh of Arkhangelsk, and ideal for high inclination orbits.<br /><br />Kapustin Yar is in the Astrakhan region near Volgograd. Relatively few satellites were launched but much of the early rocket development by the USSR was carried at there, including V2 launches.<br /><br />The Kettering Grammar school work is a classic example of how civilians using home made equipment were able to track space missions. It shows how improbable it would be to have a truely clandestine mission.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[pyoko]

I've never heard of 'Ilya' being a female name. I am (sort of) russian, and Ilya is definitely masculine. I mean names like Alex and Sam(antha) can be unisex, but Ilya is like calling a girl 'Boris'. <br /><br />Also, why would the Soviets keep this a secret? To try so hard to win the race and hiding such success would be strange. (OK they didn't win it even if this were true). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color:#ff9900" class="Apple-style-span">-pyoko</span> <span style="color:#333333" class="Apple-style-span">the</span> <span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span">duck </span></p><p><span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="color:#808080;font-style:italic" class="Apple-style-span">It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.</span></span></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

JonClarke:<br />That would have been Plesetsk...<br /><br />Me:<br />Thats what I kind of figured. Kettering was a grammar school? That I didn't know. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

That's what I thought, but didn't know enough about Russian to comment.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

See here for information on Geoff Parry, and here for a history of the Kettering group. A student's perspective is told here. The parent site of those pages show how much was discovered by amateur satellite trackers in many countries.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[qso1]

Thanks for the links. That'll be educational for me. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

It was certainly educational for the students at KGS! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[qso1]

Thats one class I would have stayed awake in. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[apollomissions]

<font color="yellow">Qso- If this were true, will probably never know it…. I'd say the answer is no, the public would not be told…</font><br /><br />That is a straight-up answer and I agree with you. <br /><br />[<font color="yellow">And I did answer that question…</font>– Yes you did. My mistake.] <br /><br />Speedfreek - … <b><i>but I doubt they would have been told</i></b> about the spider-creatures! Imagine the military potential of such a discovery.<img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> emphasis added)<br /><br />Straightforward enough<img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> and I am in agreement with you on this point. <br /><br />packet – <font color="yellow"> …Can there be any doubt whatsoever that if Russia had landed cosmonauts on the moon they would have proudly notified the world?...</font><br /><br />Well, aside from the entertainment value of this obscure and improbable little account my interest is to raise the issue of – <i>Under what conditions would discoveries be withheld?</i><br /><br />As far as I can see no one is accepting the veracity of Lev Mohilyn’s account. So the question of whether or not would we have been told is hypothetical. With that perspective in mind will you maintain your position?<br /><br />Vogon – <font color="yellow"> … Such a flight never occured…</font><br /><br />Makes sense to me. How about the hypothetical question? Under the circumstances of the alleged encounter would the public have been told?<br /><br />Pyoko – <font color="yellow">…why would the Soviets keep this a secret?</font><br /><br />I am of the position that we would not be told. From my perspective the underlying question of ‘why’ is the most interesting part of the matter. Perhaps we shall see <i>if </i>and <i>how</i> this question addressed. <br /><br />JonClarke - I don’t disagree. ‘Improbable’ is maybe the shortest/ best description of the Lev Mohilyn account. That being said I would pose the same questi