Watch SpaceX test new Starship water-deluge system for 1st time (video)

[Admin]

SpaceX gave its new Starship water-deluge system, which is designed to protect the launch pad against the superpowerful rocket, its first full-up test on Friday (July 28).

Watch SpaceX test new Starship water-deluge system for 1st time (video) : Read more

 

[Macadoodle]

Simply awesome.

 

[Classical Motion]

The water will take the heat. How much steam and vapor will it produce? With those long release times, will we be able to see a launch? Or only when it pops out from the cloud?

 

[bryant]

SpaceX gave its new Starship water-deluge system, which is designed to protect the launch pad against the superpowerful rocket, its first full-up test on Friday (July 28).

Watch SpaceX test new Starship water-deluge system for 1st time (video) : Read more

Can't believe the merits of the alleged lawsuit will hold up the next evolution of manned spaceflight. Cut them a check and send them away. Reminds me of the telescope in Hawaii. Ignorance is bliss of the unknown...

 

[bryant]

SpaceX gave its new Starship water-deluge system, which is designed to protect the launch pad against the superpowerful rocket, its first full-up test on Friday (July 28).

Watch SpaceX test new Starship water-deluge system for 1st time (video) : Read more

suspect vaporization will shine thru with enough heat to displace the thermodynamics of water turning to all steam. either way will be a spectacular display of water and fire fighting each other

 

[billslugg]

Yes, this will make a huge cloud of steam! It will cool everything down and hide the first ten seconds or so.

 

[Invertebrate]

Appears one check mark completed for the next launch of the Starship. I have to ask is all that water caught and treatment before it is released back into the near shore brackish wetlands and ocean or is it just allowed to runoff carrying the load of BOD5 and oil and grease into the ocean. Hope the FAA and NASA approve another launch shortly. It is very impressive that large amount of cooling water that will hopefully carry away the heat and protect the concrete of the launch pad, any calc on the latent heat of evaporation and .

 

[Classical Motion]

We'll have to watch the liftoff in IR. Very high dynamic range IR. A cool rocket and a hot engine. Do we have such? For a detailed high res image of those temps?

 

[billslugg]

I have to ask is all that water caught and treatment before it is released back into the near shore brackish wetlands and ocean or is it just allowed to runoff carrying the load of BOD5 and oil and grease into the ocean.

From the Final Environmental Assessment June 2022, page 111

"SpaceX would manage surface water discharges from runoff during construction and operations according to the requirements of the TPDES."
(Texas Pollutant Disharge Elimination System)

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/f..._Starship_Super_Heavy_at_Boca_Chica_FINAL.pdf

 

[Unclear Engineer]

From what I have read, it is not clear that this water will be captured along with the usual rain water runoff.

And, are we sure it needs to be? The rocket exhaust should be mostly CO2 and water. Not sure what else the steam-cleaning of the launch area might produce. Temperature of the runoff might be an issue. Maybe Musk will need to build a big dike around the launch pad?

 

[billslugg]

Musk agreed in June 2022, when the final Environmental Review was issued, to abide by the Texas Pollutant Disharge Elimination System. But, according to WSJ, he never got the permit.

SpaceX tests Starship water deluge system for second time without permit

Environmentalists have slammed SpaceX for completing the second test of its Starship water deluge system without the necessary legal permits.

interestingengineering.com

 

[Unclear Engineer]

I'm thinking SpaceX is going to need to build a catchment basin so that the runoff is controlled. then test it before release. I seriously doubt the chemicals washed off the pad would be able to contaminate that much water to levels beyond discharge limits.

But, the water may have to cool down some before "release".

And, I can see the local environmentalists claiming that pure water is a "contaminant" to a brackish ecosystem because it does not contain enough salt.

So, maybe the solution to the "waste" water is reuse. It needs to be pumped somewhere, so why not back into storage tanks for the next launch, maybe with a little treatment if it got too dirty in the catchment basin.

 

[billslugg]

Musk could build a dike about 300' in diameter around the pad. Let it flood the pad. Pump it out later. It would hold 350,000 gallons and only be 8" deep. Treat and release over following few hours.

 

[Unclear Engineer]

Yes, that is what I was thinking. Flooding the area around the pad seems like poor planning has made it a necessity. At least for this pad. To get the launch turn around time Musk is talking about for full operational status, some sort of water handling process needs to be developed that keeps the water out of the way.

But I am not understanding your comment about not being able to pump aerated water. That seems to have been deleted, but showed up in my e-mail alert. The pump doesn't need to be super fast for these first flights, but reusing the same pad rapidly ("reflown within hours") would require the ability to get water into the tanks for the suppression system pretty rapidly, no matter what its source. And, throwing away 350,000 gallons of fresh water even once per day would be huge waste of fresh water. I expect SpaceX will have to reuse the water that comes down inside some sort of catchment, and make up for the losses due to boil-off and spray away with new water each time. This isn't an issue with the SLS if it is only going to launch about once per year for several total. But Musk's plans are a much different matter.

 

[billslugg]

Yes, I trashed my original comments.
IF he wanted to pump it back into the original tanks as fast as it was being sprayed, the water would be too full of bubbles to pump. Centrifugal pump will airbind.
Best option is to put up a one foot dike, flood the pad, pump it back into the tanks over several hours. Easy, cheap, foolproof, no treatment needed, no discharge, no permits.

 

[Unclear Engineer]

Agree, pumping it as fast as it was being sprayed would not be feasible in any configuration. It takes time for water to gravity drain to the low point for pump suction, and pumping too fast would draw the water level at the suction location down below the intake, anyway, no matter how cold or deaerated the water is.

I wonder how big in diameter the dike really needs to be in order to capture most of the water that isn't evaporated. Considering how far pieces of concrete got thrown, there is probably going to be some super-splashing going on during launches. Is splashing outside the dike a "discharge"? Is anyplace inside the dike going to be considered "environment" if it is mostly wetlands?

The Saturn rockets had a sort of channel that was sprayed such that the water went in only one direction. That made it easier to control. I wonder if Florida considered that a "discharge". Kerosene is much more likely to make chemical contaminants than methane. There is already so much methane generated naturally in marshes that I doubt you could figure out how much Starship adds without isotopically marking the Starship fuel. (Oops, probably should not have given the obstructionists any ideas on something to demand to delay things more.)