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Water on Extraterrestrials? Convince me. *DELETED*

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plutocrass

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I just read about water on Saturn's Moon. Is this real heavy duty water, like oceans or lakes of water that was promised to be found on Mars but never appeared?
 
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yevaud

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Link 1<br /><br />Link 2<br /><br />Link 3<br /><br />So as you can "see" (joke *not* intended), we've actually imaged it and detected in radiometrically.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>
 
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plutocrass

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Thanks for the photos of the residual polar cap water/CO2. <br /><br />But I was wondering about the lakes and ponds and oceans that they promised were going to be on Mars but never appeared. I'm thinking the bits of water on Saturn's moon is the same type of deal, nothing for the living, but maybe we could use it as a interplanetary rest-stop someday?<br /><br />PS - Those photos are really cool!
 
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nexium

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Water ice has significant vapor pressure even at -39 degrees f = -39 degrees c, but the atmosphere of Mars has very little water vapor. Could this mean a chemical delivered a few decades ago by an asteroid, is dehumidifing the atmosphere of Mars? Likely this means the water on Mars is below the surface and/or chemically combined in minerals as water of crytalization. Neil
 
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nexium

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Water ice has significant vapor pressure even at -39 degrees f = -39 degrees c, but the atmosphere of Mars has very little water vapor. Likely this means the water on Mars is below the surface and/or chemically combined in minerals as water of crytalization. I have no explanation for the water CO2 mixture in the Mars polar ice cap. Neil
 
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yevaud

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No problem.<br /><br />One question though: who "promised" that lakes and free-standing water would be found on Mars? Given what we already knew about surface conditions there, it had to have been someone who didn't know what they were talking about... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>
 
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plutocrass

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Mars Had Ocean, Controversial New Theory Says<br />Brian Handwerk<br />for National Geographic News<br /><br />September 22, 2004<br />http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/09/0922_040922_mars_ocean.html<br /><br />Brown geologist finds evidence supporting ancient ocean on Mars <br />James Head, a Brown University planetary geologist, is the lead investigator on a team of scientists that has found evidence supporting the presence of an ancient ocean on Mars. The team received topographical data from the unmanned Mars Global Surveyor that they say is consistent with a former ocean. <br />http://www.brown.edu/Administration/News_Bureau/1999-00/99-060.html<br /><br />Mars' Missing Ocean: A New Look at the Northern Plains <br />Ocean still possible<br /><br />Withers remained open to the idea that the flatlands once harbored an ocean...<br />http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/flat_mars_010405.html<br /><br /><br />Mars Orbiter Camera<br />The ocean hypothesis envisions that the martian northern lowlands were once covered by either a single, continuous body of water or incompletely covered by a series of smaller seas connected by spillways. The ocean hypothesis is very important, because the existence of large bodies of liquid water in the martian past would have a tremendous impact on ancient martian climate and might also have implications for the search for evidence of past life on the planet. http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/grl_99_shorelines/<br /><br />"Frozen ocean" under Mars surface<br />12:26 27 May 2002 <br />The new results also hint at why the water that once carved channels on th
 
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yevaud

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No, you misunderstand. The syntax of how you stated that seemed to imply that said free bodies of water were <i>currently</i> present. Hence my comment. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>
 
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plutocrass

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This story seems to convey my point. I'm sure there were many people who thought that winds alone were sufficient to cause the gullies. And that the hype over water was built around a misplaced hypothesis made after viewing the Martian surface from afar and seeing these so-called Martian deltas. Bravo! <br /><br />http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060321_mars_water.html<br /><br />It's the newstory on today's front page of space.com<br /><br />It’s completely possible that there’s no water involved at all and that what we’re seeing are just dry flows of dust and sand," Treiman told SPACE.com. "You can get massive flows of material that’s completely dry and ends up having pretty much the same shape as if they were wet."<br /> <br /><font color="yellow">"I'm not sad that NASA has not discovered any useable amount of Martian water after all the money we spent. I am sadder to remember that the bright engineers and managers of NASA actually spent large amounts of money preparing for Y2K." - Joe Kimoto</font><br />
 
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telfrow

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The link doesn't work. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>
 
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plutocrass

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I'll fix the link. <br /><br />I think they're gonna find that the polarization of the sun or temp differences affects the soil so that the top layer forms a less-dense crust, almost like water losing density to form ice. I think the top layer crusts and breaks away then winds pick it up to expose the fresh layer, which in turn loses density and crusts away.<br /><br />I think the dominoes have started to fall and that people will start examining those blueberries in brine salts with another hypothesis for formation.<br /><br /><br /><font color="yellow">"There are no Martians, it's Halloween." -Orsen Walls<br />"There is an end to NASA's fatcat funding, it's called common sense."-Joe Kimoto<br /><br />"Mork calling Orsen, come in Orsen." -Robin Williams </font>/safety_wrapper>
 
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plutocrass

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...because I think there are multivalent cations in the soil that can be oxidized by the thin atmosphere, and form a lighter crust than the soil below, which causes the 'skin' to fluff and breeze away. I don't know if there was water at first, to make these things, but I think that the "riverflows" are caused by this mechanical dust-like process. I would like someone to convince me that I'm wrong, because, of course, I would like to believe in an abundance of water in the history of mars.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">"You know what happens when you're proven wrong? They stop funding you."-Michael S. Phlegmbottoms, NASA 1966 </font>/safety_wrapper>
 
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