Wayne Hale Blog

Testing · Jan 29, 2009

Some of you may have seen my posts  of Wayne Hale's Blogs in the past. Get used to it.Wayne Hale's Blog <div class="default_style_wrap">Stifling Dissent <div class="entry">Posted on Jan 29, 2009 10:46:58 PM | Wayne Hale | 0 Comments    <dl class="previously"><dd class="summary"><table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td>I've got a video that you need to watch, but first I need to explain why you need to watch it and what lesson I hope you will take away.The Columbia Accident Investigation Board said that NASA - and specifically the Space Shuttle Program - stifled dissenting opinions which might have prevented the accident.  Particularly the action was pointed toward the Mission Management Team.  As the new Deputy Program Manager, I was assigned the task of restructuring the MMT and providing means for listening to dissent.  Somewhere along the way I acquired the informal title of 'culture change leader'.  I took this to heart and changing the culture to be more welcoming to alternate or dissenting opinions was a task that took a lot of my time and attention.During the long days of returning the space shuttle to flight the question frequently came up as to how we were doing changing the culture.   My answer, as honest as I could make it, was that we were making progress, making changes, improving the situation, but that changing the culture was hard and we had a long way to go.Periodically reports came from various sources that NASA people did not feel safe or welcomed in stating dissent or alternate recommendations.  This caused a lot of angst among NASA leadership who felt that they were doing everything possible to change the culture and saw progress being made.  NASA is a large and diverse organization and it is obviously difficult to winnow out all the old culture in all the niches around the agency.  After all, the focus was on the shuttle program and especially the MMT.  It should only be expected that parts of the organization far afield might be lagging behind.Personally, I was heartened by a lot of the change which I was observing.  But it was still hard to draw out introverted engineers who are by their nature conflict averse.  Formal settings tend to put sociological pressure on low-ranking folks to keep quiet, so we tried to develop informal settings; ask more questions, listen more..Still, it is hard to tell how effective the change effort has been.  Even though I personally try to solicit information from a variety of folks in a variety of places and ways, the reports were generally that alternate opinions are welcomed, dissent is accepted and evaluated, and we are doing better than ever.But the anonymous polls and internet feed back says there is still a lot of work to be done.Recently I had a couple of events which affected my thinking on this.  I have been out of the Shuttle Program manager job for almost a year now and a trusted coworker just a week ago told me that people in his organization had been prevented from giving me important alternative choices for some program choices that occurred a couple of years ago.  This was staggering. It was happening right in front of me and I was totally unaware that people - who I trusted, who I hoped would trust me - kept their lips sealed because somebody in their middle management made it clear to them that speaking up would not be good.Astounding.  About two weeks ago an activity that Mike Coats started at JSC had an all day report out period.  The Inclusion and Innovation Council was to propose ways to improve innovation at NASA.  Various teams reported out, including one team of young employees who has the task to talk about the barriers to innovation at NASA -- specifically at JSC.The video attached was their result.  I found it extraordinarily funny and not at all funny.  These young people have obviously found themselves in situations RECENTLY in which managers at various levels applied sociological and psychological pressures to keep them from bringing ideas forward.I am convinced that if we asked the managers who were the models for this little morality play whether they stifled dissent or welcomed alternate opinions, they would respond that they were welcoming and encouraging.  Probably because they have that self image.But actual behavior, not inaccurate self perception, is what we really need.  So now, watch the video, then come back and lets talk about what I think we really need to do about it:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_424YskAfewAre you done with it?  Maybe you should go back and watch it a couple of times.  I did.I feel like the early civil right pioneers must feel; the overt bad behavior is gone underground.  People say the right things in public discussion of how they should act, then behave in the bad old ways in small or private settings.Since these behaviors are still being practiced at NASA, here is what I believe managers need to do1.  Break out of the sandbox.  Even if it is not your area, the agency needs the best ideas to succeed in our goals.  If you have subordinates who have ideas for improving other areas, it is important to get those ideas into the open where they can compete in the marketplace of ideas, or at least get a technical review.2.  If subordinate has an idea that has been tried before and didn't work, consider that times may have changed and it might work now or with improvements that you know of.  In the final extremity, your subordinate needs more than the curt dismissal that its been tried before and didn't work - you need to explain it to them.3. Managers at all levels need to provide safe places and times for interaction that skips levels in the chain of command.   Well, that is enough to start with.  Looks like we still have a long way to go and the first step is to know that you still have a problem.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_424YskAfew

vogon13 · Jan 29, 2009

I recall an issue from many years ago on some Shuttle electronics.  It was brought to our attention that various epoxies used in manufacturing integrated circuits release various gases during curing.  For the exterior of the devices, the gases dissipate harmlessly.  For devices with sealed volumes, the gases are trapped inside.  What kind of pressure ??  Dunno.  Are the gases damaging to the silicon in the devices ??  Dunno.  Do we know for sure this is not a problem ??  Dunno. Do we know for sure this is a problem ??  Dunno. Since our company purchased the devices, and did not make them, it seemed to be out of our responsibilities to raise the issue.  The device manufacturers had certified them as acceptible for manned flight, and apparently all the paperwork was okey dokey.   So, do we raise a flag ?? We didn't.  Nothing bad ever happened.  Would the effort expended on checking our (non) issue have let something else go through unchecked ??   Dunno.  Unsettling experience, just never had the 'warm fuzzy' that we did the right thing . . . .      <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

Testing · Jan 30, 2009

It was brought to our attention that various epoxies used in manufacturing integrated circuits release various gases during curing.  For the exterior of the devices, the gases dissipate harmlessly.  For devices with sealed volumes, the gases are trapped inside.  What kind of pressure ??  Dunno.  Are the gases damaging to the silicon in the devices ??  Dunno.  Do we know for sure this is not a problem ??  Dunno. Do we know for sure this is a problem ??  Dunno. Since our company purchased the devices, and did not make them, it seemed to be out of our responsibility.Outgassing data for virtually every Space rated material. If it flew, calm yourself. It never would have otherwise. http://www.outgassing.nasa.gov/ <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

vogon13 · Jan 30, 2009

I appreciate that, and it is somewhat helpful.  But the gases technically, weren't outgassed.  They remained trapped inside the ICs.  We accidently discovered the gases when an outside lab sliced open a device for inspecting an unrelated problem and the gases nearly damaged some of their sensitive equipment.  It seemed everyone we talked to (a small sample, however) was 'surprised' the gases were trapped inside the device housing.  Seems like 'surprises' are by definition ungood in spaceflight. IIRC, the gases were CO CH4 H2.     <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

Testing · Jan 30, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> I appreciate that, and it is somewhat helpful.  But the gases technically, weren't outgassed.  They remained trapped inside the ICs.  We accidently discovered the gases when an outside lab sliced open a device for inspecting an unrelated problem and the gases nearly damaged some of their sensitive equipment.  It seemed everyone we talked to (a small sample, however) was 'surprised' the gases were trapped inside the device housing.  Seems like 'surprises' are by definition ungood in spaceflight. IIRC, the gases were CO CH4 H2.     Posted by vogon13</DIV>If they did not meet a leak rate of 1x10-7 SCCM or better they did not fly. Not released in flight. Inside good, outside bad. Released in a destructive test and they knew what it was? Good.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_se al <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jan 30, 2009

Thanx Testing. When Wayne tells me to watch something, I watch it.Very sobering and unsettling...The Other Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

rocketwatcher2001 · Jan 30, 2009

That reminds me of a great training film I saw a few years ago about aviation maintenance management.  It was made by the Canadians.  It was very sobering, because I had seen much of it in real life, I wish I had seen it 10 years before.  I hope this video is being taken to heart at all levels of NASA.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

ThereIWas2 · Jan 30, 2009

Its a good thing that Tom Dolan and John Houbolt did not give up on their idea for Lunar Orbit Rendesvous, when even Werner von Braun did not think of it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

shuttle_guy · Jan 30, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Its a good thing that Tom Dolan and John Houbolt did not give up on their idea for Lunar Orbit Rendesvous, when even Werner von Braun did not think of it. Posted by ThereIWas2</DIV> It was not that he did not think of it, he did know of the option He just did not have the confidence that LOR was a good idea based on the state of the technology at the time. Also he wanted to build the NOVA launch vehicle not stop with the Saturn Five. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

ThereIWas2 · Jan 30, 2009

Yes, that did not come out correctly.   At least in the Earth to the Moon TV series, the LOR idea met the kind of resistance shown in this video, I think largely because the idea was coming from outside of normal channels.  At least that is how EttM portrayed it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

shuttle_guy · Jan 30, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Yes, that did not come out correctly.   At least in the Earth to the Moon TV series, the LOR idea met the kind of resistance shown in this video, I think largely because the idea was coming from outside of normal channels.  At least that is how EttM portrayed it. Posted by ThereIWas2</DIV>Yes, the "Not Invented Here" stance is often very difficult to over come. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

trailrider · Jan 30, 2009

When Challenger blew up, I was working on the SRB Decelerator Subsystem (parachute recovery system).  As part of the investigation, we went through a whole bunch of document searches, etc.  Our system had nothing to do with the accident.  As a matter of fact, the drogue chute attached to the frustum (conical section of the nose cone used to hold and act as a deployment "bag" for the main parachutes) of the lefthand booster was about the only thing that worked, and was seen floating down to the ocean!As part of our reporting, I looked at the Downstage Postflight reports from previous flights, something we never did, as below the SRB forward deck was not our cognsizance.  Right there, on the reports for the previous August and the April before that was the report of seals leaking 120 degrees around the circumfrence of the joint, on IIRC both boosters!  The thought crossed my mind...for just an instance...that had I seen that, perhaps I could have said something to somebody.  Then "sanity" prevailed: Had I said anything to my management, I would have been told, "Forget it! That's none of our business!"  How do I know that's what I would have been told?  Because there were numerous other things that I'd seen of perhaps not so vital an issue, but within the program, the division and the corporation!And we wonder why the aerospace and defense industry has trouble attracting young people from the STEM disciplines?  Why should they?  To be told, "Forget innovating, forget trying to make constructive suggestions! Just keep your head down, eyes on your work, and forget about asking for a raise, even if you do an outstanding job! Heck! You'll be lucky to have a job when you come back from lunch...if there is any lunch besides what you catch!

Testing · Feb 2, 2009

Another installmenthttp://blogs.nasa.gov/cm/blog/waynehalesblog/posts/post_1233541742080.html <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Feb 2, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Another installmenthttp://blogs.nasa.gov/cm/blog/waynehalesblog/posts/post_1233541742080.html Posted by Testing</DIV> Just a suggestion, you should probably include the title to encourage people to take the time to read it. Not necessary for me, since it's one of the things on my morning checklist <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /> but others might appreciate the subject du jour... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

CalliArcale · Feb 3, 2009

Thanks, Testing, for sharing this.  I've been only minimally online for the past few days due to some kind of illness.  (Doctor doesn't know what it was, but it kicked my butt for almost a week, I can tell you that.)  But I did still go through my daily ration of blogs, and that was one of them, so I saw this when Hale posted it.  It's an excellent video, and I think  that managers throughout the engineering world, not just those dealing with NASA, need to see it.  Because these problems are definitely not limited to NASA.  It is a cautionary tale in how easy it is for well-meaning individuals to unconsciously create an environment hostile to change and hostile to dissent.  I bet that most managers like the fictional ones depicted tend to think of themselves as approachable and open to change, totally unaware of the implications of these sorts of situations.  It's good.  I'm going to share it with folks in my department. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

Testing · Feb 12, 2009

Thanks, Testing, for sharing this.  The latetest from Mr. Halehttp://blogs.nasa.gov/cm/blog/waynehalesblog/posts/post_1234459140204.html <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

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