What do/will astronauts do?

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radarredux

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Lisa Nowak became an astronaut in 1996, but didn't fly her first mission for another decade (2006).<ul><li>What is the typical time between a person being accepted into the astronaut corps. and actually flying on a mission?<br /><li>How many astronauts are there that haven't flown a mission yet?<br /><li>How gainfully employed are these astronauts while not flying or training for a specific mission?<br /><li>What is the median number of flights an astronaut will take in their career?<br /><li>Do astronauts every retire or leave without every having flown?<br /><li>How many astronauts are expected to fly each year after 2010?</li></li></li></li></li></li></ul><br />The last point seems pretty important. NASA will shift from sending probably 20-30 astronauts into space every year (6 American astronauts per flight x 4 flights per year) to sending about 5 astronauts to ISS per year (via hitching a ride on Soyuz for at least 4 years).<br /><br />How will downsizing the number of astronauts flying each year by a factor of 4-6 affect the astronaut corps?
 
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Boris_Badenov

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I rather doubt that there will be any decline in applications for the Astronaut Corps. The Alt. Space Companies will probably start employing some of the available talent soon as well.<br /> Bigelow, SpaceX & LockMart are all going to need Astronauts soon, so any that don't want to wait for a mission with NASA might try signing up with one of these guys. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>
 
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erioladastra

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Wow, lots of good questions. I don't have the actual numbers in front of me but I am sure someone does. One problem with averages is that the program has changed over time so it is hard to know what window you should really compare. For example, there are folks who have flown 5-6 times but now the ops philosophy is to TRY not to let anyone more than 3-4 flight not go again and give the rookies experience. For the rookies starting to fly now, I would think the number of flights will be very close to 1 unless they want to stick around for a long time or do ISS (and even then there are small numbers that will be going). I would guess there are 20-30 who have not flown yet. When the last class was selected they were told "it would be 10 years before you fly - still wanna come?" I believe one declined. A number of astronauts selected in the Apollo days did leave without a flight due to the long gap. This is very much on the mind of those in the corps now. <br /><br />As to gainful employment, they are members of NASA so they are gainfully employeed (or on loan from the military). But my guess is you want to know what do they do. Well they sit on boards that review operations, help write procedures, conduct tests, perform simulations (which helps them in their training and helps train the operations controllers), help plan, support other astronauts (for example, folks will be in Russia to help those training for an Expedition to ISS have help and support) and so on. They are very busy. While regular engineers can, and do, many of the same tasks, it is very helpful to have a crew's perspective or experience.
 
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comga

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According to Homer Hickam (author of "Rocket Boys/October Sky," and many other books and a former NASA astronaut training manager) in<br /><br />http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-hickam9feb09,0,6631818.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail<br /> <br />there are "more than 125" astronauts. <br /><br />With the descent to a half dozen astronaut flights a year after 2010, and then perhaps eight per year once the new Moon landings begin, the will need a lot fewer. (Your numbers seem pretty reasonable, RadarRedux.) It's doesn't matter that they will continue to have a great number of applicants, and that some may find positions with the Alt.space and space tourism companies. <br /><br />Furthermore, as the article states, having so many highly qualified people contending for so few slots with such subjective selection criteria is a recipe for stress and waste. It is also an environment where the best leave leave early. He also answers your question about what they do between missions. <br /><br />And I do believe that some have retired without ever flying, particularly after the severe downturns in 1973, 1986, the 2003 beginning of the end of the Shuttle.
 
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saurc

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Space tourism may take a while in coming up, but it is quite certain it will happen soon enough. Soon the definition of 'astronaut' may change. Look at all the pilots that these suborbital flights will require. Will they be considered as astronauts?<br /><br />In any case, it is not likely that robots will some day perform all the functions of astronauts. Although with advances in Artificial intelligence this becomes less and less certain.<br /><br />During the Apollo period, the need for a man in the landing module was a must. Armstrong had manually controlled the LEM through the last 15 min or so through a highly rock strewn area to find a good spot for landing. <br /><br />However will it be necessary for man to control the spacecraft in a Mars landing, assuming it does take place at all? Considering the advances in modern technology, I don't think so.<br /><br />What would a manned mission to Mars accomplish in scientific terms? Would it gather more scientific data than an even 1/10 th priced unmanned mission ? Most likely not. The reason for astronauts to exist is for man to go into space. Without man in space, space exploration is futile.
 
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erioladastra

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"Furthermore, as the article states, having so many highly qualified people contending for so few slots with such subjective selection criteria is a recipe for stress and waste."<br /><br />His opinion. There are others who think haveing a large, diverse group brings depth and flexibility. The truth is probably somewhere in between.
 
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willpittenger

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<font color="yellow">Before I make this statement, let me say that I am only telling you what I read. I am making no claims as to the accuracy of the statement.</font><br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>During the Apollo period, the need for a man in the landing module was a must. Armstrong had manually controlled the LEM through the last 15 min or so through a highly rock strewn area to find a good spot for landing.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Basically, I read that Armstrong misread the site layout. Supposedly, he felt the Eagle was heading to point A, but it was actually still on course to the location planned before the mission -- and it had no boulders.<br /><br />I personally doubt that a man with Armstrong's skills would have goofed as described unless he had received faulty training. I do see the possibility that something incorrect might have been accidentally taught. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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willpittenger

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>However will it be necessary for man to control the spacecraft in a Mars landing, assuming it does take place at all? Considering the advances in modern technology, I don't think so.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Perhaps not. However, I would just as soon have the manual option as a backup. All it would take is a software problem to have a crash. I don't know if humans would be able to control the lander without some sort of fly-by-wire system. However, I don't like having all my eggs in one basket. In Poker, they say to hedge your bets. We should with piloting systems too. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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willpittenger

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Agreed. We need a group that acts both small and large. I should note that smaller also means less expense. Even rookie pilot astronauts probably get paid considerably more than pilots who have yet to be selected. I figure the same is true for non-pilots for their career prior to selection. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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cuddlyrocket

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"Yes, when they exceed 50 miles in altitude."<br /><br />Not by me. Space starts at 100 km. I believe that's what all the private space tourist companies are using as their definition as well.
 
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MeteorWayne

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Since it's international, it's really <br />100km = 62.137119.224 miles <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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willpittenger

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There is no extra pay for being selected? Are you saying the main incentive is the "chance of a lifetime?" That could turn out to be bad news. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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willpittenger

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No wonder we lose so many pilot to commercial interests. We hear about airline pilots making a million US dollars a year. I don't even know if the military payscale (even with flight pay added on) goes anywhere near that high.<br /><br />OK. A 747 is not a F-22 or the Space Shuttle, but if the pay is better... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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erioladastra

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"Basically, I read that Armstrong misread the site layout. Supposedly, he felt the Eagle was heading to point A, but it was actually still on course to the location planned before the mission -- and it had no boulders"<br /><br />No he was landing right where he was supposed to but the area was much more rugged than expected. He just needed to find a slightly better spot. I do not believe the quality of maps was good enough at that detail to see boulders etc.
 
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cuddlyrocket

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"The US military definition is 50 miles or above."<br /><br />Yes, but the original question was: "Look at all the pilots that these suborbital flights will require. Will they be considered as astronauts?", to which you replied: 'Yes, once they get above 50 miles.'<br /><br />'All these sub-orbital flights' will be carried out by the civilian space-tourist companies, who are using the 100 km definition. They'll be considered astronauts once they get above that height.
 
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subzero788

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Anyone have any idea when NASA be selecting their next batch of Astronaut Candidates?
 
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erioladastra

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"Anyone have any idea when NASA be selecting their next batch of Astronaut Candidates? "<br /><br />Next selection will start no earlier than 2008.
 
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qso1

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saurc:<br />What would a manned mission to Mars accomplish in scientific terms? Would it gather more scientific data than an even 1/10 th priced unmanned mission ? Most likely not. The reason for astronauts to exist is for man to go into space. Without man in space, space exploration is futile.<br /><br />Me:<br />One reason for going to Mars would be to verify the existence of living organisms should an unmanned probe discover evidence for them. Verification, and study of organisms in a way that can IMO, only be fully accomplished by a combination of human and robotic capability. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>
 
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willpittenger

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Agreed. Done right, robotics can make human missions better. For instance, imagine going to the Valles Marineris. We could send a robot down the side of the wall with a human at the top monitoring it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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JonClarke

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<i>In any case, it is not likely that robots will some day perform all the functions of astronauts. Although with advances in Artificial intelligence this becomes less and less certain. </i><br /><br />Despite 50 years of research in AI the prospect of a robot being able to do all the functions of an astronaut is as remote as ever. We still can't get a robot to do something as simple as screw in a light bulb. Let alone do anything beyond the simplest field science and engineering tasks. people assumed that things that were easy for people - walking, screwing in light bulbs, recognising things - would be easy for robots. Things that were hard for people - precision assembly, playing chess - would be hard for robots. As it has turned out it is the things that people find hard to do are the ones that are (relatively) easy for robots. The things that people do without thinking are extremely difficult for robots. And that is not getting into the unique human skills of adaptability, cognition, intuition, aesthetics, creativity. So the lessons of 50 years of AI, robots and spaceflight is you get robots to do the things they are good at - simple routine tasks, and use humans to do the complex creative ones.<br /><br /><i>What would a manned mission to Mars accomplish in scientific terms? Would it gather more scientific data than an even 1/10 th priced unmanned mission ? Most likely not.</i><br /><br />A human Mars mission would return 1000's of times the data of a robotic mission for a lot less than 100 times the cost. It would return not just quantitatively more data but qualitatively different and better data and data in whole new categories.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
 
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