What if we lost 1 of 3 dishes in Deep Space Network?

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Leovinus

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<p>There are three big antennas in the Deep Space Network:&nbsp; one in Californa, one in Spain, and one in Australia.&nbsp; These provide the ability to talk to any probe any time because they are 1/3 of the way around the world from each other.&nbsp; </p><p>I was wondering what the impact would be if we lost one of those antennas through hardware failure, natural disasters, or other imaginable events.</p><p>My theory is that it wouldn't be catastrophic:&nbsp; There are lots of probes out there and each dish can only point to one at a time.&nbsp; Therefore, there must be lots of times when any particular probe has no dish pointing to it at all.&nbsp; </p><p>I think the worst that would happen is that we needed the broken dish right at a critical time (such as a landing on Mars) and we'd miss the signals.</p><p>I think it might be a good idea to add more dishes to the Deep Space Network in new locations.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>There are three big antennas in the Deep Space Network:&nbsp; one in Californa, one in Spain, and one in Australia.&nbsp; These provide the ability to talk to any probe any time because they are 1/3 of the way around the world from each other.&nbsp; I was wondering what the impact would be if we lost one of those antennas through hardware failure, natural disasters, or other imaginable events.My theory is that it wouldn't be catastrophic:&nbsp; There are lots of probes out there and each dish can only point to one at a time.&nbsp; Therefore, there must be lots of times when any particular probe has no dish pointing to it at all.&nbsp; I think the worst that would happen is that we needed the broken dish right at a critical time (such as a landing on Mars) and we'd miss the signals.I think it might be a good idea to add more dishes to the Deep Space Network in new locations.&nbsp; <br />Posted by Leovinus</DIV></p><p>You've got it right in general. The only factor you didn't mention is workload. Right now, all 3 dishes are busy pretty much 24/7 downloading data and sending instructions.</p><p>If 1 of the 3 were lost, we would not be able to support all the spacecraft out there.&nbsp;One or more&nbsp;would have to have only very intermittent contact (ie no data, only keep alive contact).</p><p>MW<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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qso1

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<p>I'd say your theories are right on target. Any one of the dishes have probably had hardware failures in the past. It would take one heck of a hardware failure to take a dish offline I would think. Even if it did, it would be repairable. Natural disasters would be a whole nother matter.</p><p>Although I do recall one catastrophic hardware failure. The radio telescope at Green Bank West Virginia where the SETI effort began, collapsed in 1988 IIRC. A new one had to be built in its place. Fortunately, this scope was not used AFAIK for spacecraft tracking.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I'd say your theories are right on target. Any one of the dishes have probably had hardware failures in the past. It would take one heck of a hardware failure to take a dish offline I would think. Even if it did, it would be repairable. Natural disasters would be a whole nother matter.Although I do recall one catastrophic hardware failure. The radio telescope at Green Bank West Virginia where the SETI effort began, collapsed in 1988 IIRC. A new one had to be built in its place. Fortunately, this scope was not used AFAIK for spacecraft tracking. <br />Posted by qso1</DIV></p><p>If you ever get a chance to visit Green Bank, I highly recommend it.</p><p>I visited during the construction of the replacement 100X110m Alt-Az scope which is now online.</p><p>Here's a link to Green Bank:</p><p>http://www.gb.nrao.edu/<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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qso1

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I certainly hope to one day. I was actually born in Huntington W.Va. but I seem to get up that way once a decade whether i need to or not. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>
 
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Cygnus_X_1

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>There are three big antennas in the Deep Space Network:&nbsp; one in Californa, one in Spain, and one in Australia. <br /> Posted by Leovinus</DIV></p><p>That is not entirely correct. &nbsp; There are 3 DSN sites and each site has mulitple dishes.</p><p>"Each complex consists of at least four deep space stations equipped with ultrasensitive receiving systems and large parabolic dish antennas. There are: </p> <ul><li>One <strong>34-meter</strong> (111-foot) diameter High Efficiency antenna.</li><li>One <strong>34-meter</strong> Beam Waveguide antenna.<br /> (Three at the Goldstone Complex and two in Madrid)</li><li>One <strong>26-meter</strong> (85-foot) antenna.</li><li>One <strong>70-meter</strong> (230-foot) antenna."</li></ul><p>&nbsp;http://deepspace.jpl.nasa.gov/dsn/antennas/index.html</p><p>They can handle the all the spacecraft. &nbsp; The largest antennas are not needed for most spacecraft&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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earth_bound_misfit

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<p>Leo, there's more than three dishes in the DSN. There are only three locations though.</p><p>I'm sure that they must have spare capacity as there would always be ongoing maintance where a disk would be taken out of service.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>
 
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JonClarke

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<p>Each complex has several dishes that provide redundancy.&nbsp; There are also tracking stations run by ESA, CSA, and RSA.&nbsp; These could be used in an emergency.&nbsp; There are also a considerable number of radio telescopes than can, and have been used to track space missions.</p><p>&nbsp;Jon<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
 
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CalliArcale

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Each complex has several dishes that provide redundancy.&nbsp; There are also tracking stations run by ESA, CSA, and RSA.&nbsp; These could be used in an emergency.&nbsp; There are also a considerable number of radio telescopes than can, and have been used to track space missions.&nbsp;Jon <br /> Posted by jonclarke</DIV></p><p>My favorite example of a telescope used to support the DSN is Arecibo.&nbsp; It was the last instrument to hear from Pioneer 10 -- and at that point, the only one on Earth big enough to do so.&nbsp; It was given DSN upgrades a number of years ago so it could do that sort of thing.&nbsp; Another reason for the powers that be to keep Arecibo alive! </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>
 
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Cygnus_2112

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Leo, there's more than three dishes in the DSN. There are only three locations though.I'm sure that they must have spare capacity as there would always be ongoing maintance where a disk would be taken out of service.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by earth_bound_misfit</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>My orginal post doesn't show up buthere it is again:&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>"Each complex consists of at least four deep space stations equipped with ultrasensitive receiving systems and large parabolic dish antennas. There are: </p> <ul><li class="MsoNormal">One <strong>34-meter</strong> (111-foot) diameter High Efficiency antenna.</li><li class="MsoNormal">One <strong>34-meter</strong> Beam Waveguide antenna.<br /> (Three at the Goldstone Complex and two in Madrid)</li><li class="MsoNormal">One <strong>26-meter</strong> (85-foot) antenna.</li><li class="MsoNormal">One <strong>70-meter</strong> (230-foot) antenna."</li></ul> <p>&nbsp;http://deepspace.jpl.nasa.gov/dsn/antennas/index.html</p> <p>They can handle the all the spacecraft. &nbsp; The largest antennas are not needed for most spacecraft&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p>
 
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Leovinus

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;My orginal post doesn't show up buthere it is again:&nbsp;&nbsp;"Each complex consists of at least four deep space stations equipped with ultrasensitive receiving systems and large parabolic dish antennas. There are: One 34-meter (111-foot) diameter High Efficiency antenna.One 34-meter Beam Waveguide antenna. (Three at the Goldstone Complex and two in Madrid)One 26-meter (85-foot) antenna.One 70-meter (230-foot) antenna." &nbsp;http://deepspace.jpl.nasa.gov/dsn/antennas/index.html They can handle the all the spacecraft. &nbsp; The largest antennas are not needed for most spacecraft&nbsp; &nbsp; <br /> Posted by Cygnus_2112</DIV></p><p>I didn't know that.&nbsp; I always pictured one big dish at each site. &nbsp; I imagine the hugest dishes are required for the Voyagers.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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