What makes Spider-Man so special?

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ZenGalacticore

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What makes Spider-man so special? Well here's my two cents worth:

He was the first TEENAGER super-hero who was NOT a sidekick of an older super-hero.

He isn't some chic, fabulously rich billionaire, nor was he from another planet. He's one of us.

Peter Parker is, although a genius, an out and out nerd. There's a little 'nerd' in everybody. He's one of us.

Like most 18-year-olds, Spiderman is a smart-ass. [Contrasted with Superman, who was just TOO perfect. And too invulnerable.]

And what has always been really cool about Spiderman to me- besides the web and sticky- is that he could fall a thousand feet onto concrete or steel, and while it didn't kill him, it fazed him solid. In the original comic book and 1967 Animated Series, he would fall 90 stories-to the tune of a plunging, spiraling ditty- and smash on the ground with a loud THUD!! The artists convey a time elapse of a couple of hours. Spidey wakes up, while still flat on his back, and starts rubbing his forehead and moaning in hangover-like pain. He'd say to himself: "Ohhh man...[still rubbing his head] uhhh. Feels like Saturday morning at Harry's."

Maybe he's not quite as cool as Batman, and, while Batman's outfit is a bit kinky( he's got bat-cuffs ladies), and Spiderman's outfit might be somewhat gay (I mean come on, neon red and blue spandex tighties) that's ok because Spiderman is genetically altered. :lol:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5P8lrgBtcU[/youtube]Your thoughts?
 
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drwayne

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Do you think the appeal of Spiderman is the same for today's new fans as it was when many of
the somewhat older crowd (like me) first started reading/watching in the 60's?

Wayne
 
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ZenGalacticore

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drwayne":2f9doanq said:
Do you think the appeal of Spiderman is the same for today's new fans as it was when many of
the somewhat older crowd (like me) first started reading/watching in the 60's?

Wayne

That's a good question, and I don't really know the answer to it. Unusually for me, it was the '67 Animated Spiderman tv series that got me reading the comic books.(It's usually the other way around.) I suspect that many younger people today may not realize how far-out and psychedelic Spiderman really is, how cool he is, because audiences are so inundated with special-effects that were not possible in the 1960s and 70s. So things that could not realistically be accomplished in live-action film, were done instead with motion animation and comic books.

I mean, those comic books from the 60s and 70s were incredibly creative and complex in their drawings. And the stories were pretty dang good. Just like the scene in Spiderman 2, when he's grappling with Doc Ock while falling through the air, they would draw a scene like that with 7 or 8 panels. Sometimes it felt like one needed a gyroscope when looking at and reading the action in the Spiderman comic books.

And in the early SM comics and the '67 series, once he put on the mask, Spidey was cool and cocky, not childish and G-Rated like the later couple of animated series. In the original, he never said "Gee", or "Golly", and he didn't have a wimpy voice. The original appealed to a wider audience, while the later animated versions seem to only appeal to little kids.

Obviously many kids love Spidey and think that he's the 'phat' and all, given the success of the Raimi films. And while I think Raimi and Co. have done a fine job bringing Spidey to the Silver Screen, I think at the same time they kind of candy-coated the whole thing to an extent. Perhaps in the future, other directors will get back to the cooler, psychedelic kind of sub-culture Spiderman.
 
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drwayne

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There was a period of time there in the 1960's when there was a wide variety of hero stuff
on the tube. (Cartoons and other programs as well). Even though Peter had more than
his share of problems - he still was a hero as Spiderman. I say that because as wel moved
into the 70's, and particularly in the last decade or two, there has been a lot of movement in
the direction of charactures and spoofs - it is now funny and anachronistic to have the same
sort of characters that were previously popular.

That observation, which is far from axiomatic, is kind of the genesis of my earlier question.

Wayne
 
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ZenGalacticore

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Considering the enduring popularity of Spiderman, and that he has been Marvel Group's flagship character since the year I was born, '63, I wouldn't call him an anachronism, if that's what you're trying to say. I guess Raimi and the producer(what's her name, Ziskin) felt the need to modernize Spidey to some extent, making him palatable to the politically correct and G audiences of today.

Funny thing is, is how the powers-that-be altered Batman to such a degree through the 60s from his original darker theme of the 1940s, and now they've come full circle back to 'the Dark Knight'. I always thought the whole Robin thing totally ruined Batman. What was with the 60s and punk sidekicks?

Likewise, while the Spiderman franchise was never quite as dark and sinister as the Batman gig, it did have a different atmosphere to it in the 1960s, so in that sense, he is anachronistic in some way, I suppose. Interestingly though, if Spidey is not spinning webs, crawling walls, and bouncing off concrete like a spider, he does look incongruous in his Spidey Tights. :lol:
 
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drwayne

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There certainly were a lot of sidekicks, both kids and animals in the 60's.

I think it was largely forumula sutt, it provided a foil, a comedic relief element (in a very campy time),
and it allowed a certain degree of projection into the story/world.

I am sure there was also some thinking with the folks making the stuff about whether the notion
of a "lone wolf" hero was teaching kids anti-social tendencies - a postulate that I would deny,
and if you disagree, I'm comin' after you! Big ;)

Wayne
 
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ZenGalacticore

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drwayne":14syat6d said:
There certainly were a lot of sidekicks, both kids and animals in the 60's.

I think it was largely forumula sutt, it provided a foil, a comedic relief element (in a very campy time),
and it allowed a certain degree of projection into the story/world.

I am sure there was also some thinking with the folks making the stuff about whether the notion
of a "lone wolf" hero was teaching kids anti-social tendencies - a postulate that I would deny,
and if you disagree, I'm comin' after you! Big ;)

Wayne

That's a reasonable assumption, about the idea of teaching anti-social behavior in idolizing the lone wolf.(That the 'powers-that-be would think that, anyway.) I think it might also have to do with the fact that the 'kid' market in the 50s and 60s had become so vast and market-wise powerful due to the middle and tail-end of the baby boom.

Society for a long time had a real aversion to comic books and comic book characters, my mother, for one. She was a product of her generation, born in '32, and intellectually and artistically despised comics. (Even though she was a professor AND an artist.) When the Spiderman movie came out in '02, I remember telling her about it. She said: 'Oh yeah, you and your generation are the 'tv'/ 'comic book' generation. At Christmas gathering in '06, they were running Spiderman 1 on the tv, I walked into the livingroom and there was my elderly mother watching Spiderman!!

I said: 'Mom, are you watching S-p-i-d-e-r-m-a-n?' (not spelling it, but saying it drawn-out like) And she just said "Well, it's interesting." I was touched and amused.
 
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crazyeddie

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ZenGalacticore":2alxvuaw said:
What makes Spider-man so special?

Toby McGuire makes Spiderman special. I think casting him in the movie role was unexpectedly brilliant. He just seemed too ordinary to be a superhero, but he makes it work in a way that seems so natural and believable that he's become my favorite....even though I never paid much attention to Spiderman before. He has a lot of humility and he's not too full of himself.
 
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ZenGalacticore

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crazyeddie":25061rdp said:
ZenGalacticore":25061rdp said:
What makes Spider-man so special?

Toby McGuire makes Spiderman special. I think casting him in the movie role was unexpectedly brilliant. He just seemed too ordinary to be a superhero, but he makes it work in a way that seems so natural and believable that he's become my favorite....even though I never paid much attention to Spiderman before. He has a lot of humility and he's not too full of himself.

I couldn't agree more on the casting of Tobey McGuire as Peter Parker/Spiderman, Ed. He's perfect, especially as Peter Parker. But he's missing a little something in the smart alec, wisecracking Spiderman. Just a little. "That's a nice outfit, did your mommy make that for you", [a line from the SM 1], was close, but not quite the smart-ass of the earlier comics. But like you said, you never followed the Spiderman stories until the films came out.

At any rate, forget the actors, my question's intent was asking about the character/super-hero himself. What makes Spiderman stand out among all those other comic book super-heros?
 
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jim48

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I read a biography of Stan Lee a couple of years ago. That's not his real name, by the way. He's Jewish and changed it. Different era. Spiderman is his favorite creation who shares a thread--pun intended--with other Marvel superheroes: Flawed. As a kid back in the '60s I was more into DC comics than Marvel... Superman, Batman, Aquaman, Superboy. Was Justice League of America DC or Marvel? It's been so long. I remember the Spiderman cartoon on tv. I haven't seen any of the Spiderman movies but based on what I used to see in the comic books I thought he was alright. What makes him special? His strengths and weaknesses combined. Marvel comics were over the heads of 10 year-olds like me, which is why we loved Superman and Batman. As we grew older we began to appreciate what Stan Lee was doing with Marvel comics but alas, as I grew older I got a life and left comic books behind forever. I now return you to your regularly scheduled program, currently in progress. :D
 
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drwayne

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In the peak of my comic book reading in the 70's into the early 80's, I have to admit, I
was more into the FF, Avengers, Spider Man and various related titles. My favorite
character was actually somewhaat strange, it was "The Vision". (I am sure there is
some echo of Star Trek in that, though the idea of altering one's density was kind
of cool)

I was never really into the X-Men, even though they were more "cool" that what I
read. Only later, as I got a little older did I start to get it, in part because I finally
tied the anti-mutant hysteria to my own history of living through some of the civil
rights years in the south.

Wayne

p.s. Through the years in the book, Peter has gone from a geeky loooking guy to
a handsome one....
 
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vogon13

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Spiderman exemplifies one of the features of violence is that it is avoidable. In the words of Erich Fromm, violence is an ‘historical dichotomy’ which is the opposite of "existential dichotomy". Existential dichotomies are fundamental facts of existence: that we are born without choice and ultimately die; that our abilities are limited while our desires are unlimited. So to, Spiderman/Peter Parker. Historical dichotomies are historical contradictions which can be overcome by human efforts, such as the problems of war and hunger in the midst of the progress of technology. All these are instances of violence which can be avoided. Those who benefit from these historical dichotomies try to convince others that they are unavoidable existential dichotomies. The continuing perseverance of Spiderman, despite an ongoing and continuing onslaught of 'neo-villians' bespeaks to the concept of the uber-man and continuation, vis-a-vis, enpeopling, imaginations, and id-values.
 
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CommonMan

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jim48":1f1zho8h said:
As we grew older we began to appreciate what Stan Lee was doing with Marvel comics but alas, as I grew older I got a life and left comic books behind forever. I now return you to your regularly scheduled program, currently in progress. :D

And did what with your life? Shaved your head, wear thick robes. put light bulbs in your ear. Yea, you are all grown up now. :lol:
 
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jim48

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CommonMan":3tgf31hx said:
jim48":3tgf31hx said:
As we grew older we began to appreciate what Stan Lee was doing with Marvel comics but alas, as I grew older I got a life and left comic books behind forever. I now return you to your regularly scheduled program, currently in progress. :D

And did what with your life? Shaved your head, wear thick robes. put light bulbs in your ear. Yea, you are all grown up now. :lol:

Someone who looks like me and can't get a girlfriend, plays second-banana to his dog and wears goofy shirts shouldn't throw stones.
 
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thebigcat

Guest
Sorry to be late to the party here, I'm just getting my brain put back in my head right after the scrambling that Cuse and Lindelof gave it, but I have to weigh in because Ol' Spidey was always one of my favorites.

Firstly, what made him special was that his powers weren't really all that special. He could climb walls, had moderate enhanced strength and toughness and had a "spidey sense" that warned him of impending danger. His web fluid and shooters were his own design and he also had little spider-shaped tracking bugs which he could plant on someone and then follow using his spidey sense. No great shakes, really, although I suppose the trend of giving super heroes awesome mega-powers didn't really come along until the late '70s when Chris Claremont began writing X-Men.

It was those limited powers which kept the writers from creating the uber-plots which always seem cool at the time but wind up alienating the audience because they expect it to be topped in the next story arc and that is always a very difficult thing to do. (Yes, the response is "Why worry, these are for kids after all, and if you alienate you audience there's another one where that one came from." to which I reply "Simple marketing, my friend. A broader audience equals more sales and in this case increasing the 'WOW OMG!!!' factor narrows the audience to a smaller typical age range." They also meant that the writers had to create character-based stories rather than power-based stories and Spider-Man had some great character-based story arcs.

Another thing that made the web-slinger special was something which was established early and referenced frequently. Almost the first thing that happened after Peter Parker became the Spider-Man was that his Uncle Ben was killed by robbers. This had the effect of making him somewhat of a vigilante against street crime although this was not his primary task. There were always super-powered baddies like Doc Oc to contend with. But it also gave him a form of survivor's guilt that people identified with.

I think that with Spidey Stan Lee did the best job among all of his creations for Marvel of "humanizing", giving the character realistic situations in his life, antagonists with redeming traits themselves (J. Jonah Jameson was a real SOB to work for and he hated Spider-Man with a passion but he was an absolutely incorruptable journalist, aside from the one little editorial blind spot, and he actually liked Parker even though you would be hard pressed to get him to admit it.)
 
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ZenGalacticore

Guest
Good points, and great perspective and insight, Cat. Thanks for your input.

I read somewhere that they thought that if Spiderman had innate, intrinsic webbing that that would scare the kids too much. Or maybe scare the adult parents of the kids who were reading and watching it. So the 'boy wonder' invents his own liquid web and 'webshooter'.

I agree. The story itself is what made Spiderman great. They had to come up with a motivation for Peter to use his amazing, suddenly imbued spider-powers for crime-fighting. What better device than that he has this incredible power, a bad guy is escaping, and, because of pride, Peter doesn't stop the man that would go on to kill his Uncle Ben, when he could have easily stopped the alleged perpetrator.

But you have to admit, super-strength or not, that bouncing off of pavement and being stunned but not seriously injured or killed, and climbing walls (rapidly, like a spider), is pretty far-out! :)
 
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drwayne

Guest
I found the way that Spiderman was kind of on the fringes of the "major leagues" - The FF's and
Avengers of the world. When he would on occasion, try and become part of the bigger world, it
usually ended badly.

His firendship/rivalry with the Torch was interesting, though in a way it seemed to minmize the
Torch rather than boosting Spidey.

Wayne
 
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ZenGalacticore

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One element that was missing from the recent movies was the fact that often times Spiderman would show up to stop a crime and then get inadverdantly blamed for it. The cops often thought Spidey was the culprit. They hinted at it in the movies in the scene where Unlce Ben's killer trips and falls to his death and the cops see Spidey in the window. (Of course, Spiderman easily escapes the "surrounded" building)

Yes, they did the whole JJ Jameson dislike of Spidey and his media blitz against hero-ante-hero, but the cop element was missing. Maybe later directors will incorporate the 'wrong place at wrong time' bad luck that Spidey had in the earlier versions. But even in those interpretations, there were always some cops that knew that Spiderman was a good guy, despite Jameson's ravings against him. Captain Stacy, for one. But a lot of the beat cops thought he was bad.
 
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drwayne

Guest
Jameson also funded development of beings designed to do in Spidey, including the Fly and
the Scorpion and the Spider Slayers

Wayne
 
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ZenGalacticore

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yevaud":2on2u51v said:
ZenGalacticore":2on2u51v said:
it was the '67 Animated Spiderman tv series

Then enjoy!

1967 Spiderman cartoon theme: http://www.televisiontunes.com/Spiderman_-_Original_1967_Cartoon.html

Danka shane Baron Yevaud and gutentag to you!

I bought the 'Spider-Man '67 Animated Series Collector's Set' after I had ordered it from now defunct Media-Play. This was in 03, about a year or so after the release of the first movie. Six months later the 6-disc set was on the shelves at Wal-Mart for $35 bucks. One can now probably get the whole set for $20 or so. It's worth to have in any dvd collection of great animated comics/cartoons.

The '1967 Animated Spider-Man' is a classic original of no compare. There is no animated series like it.
 
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ZenGalacticore

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drwayne":1jjh617l said:
Jameson also funded development of beings designed to do in Spidey, including the Fly and
the Scorpion and the Spider Slayers

Wayne

I remember his collusion with the Fly and the Scorpion. But danged if I can recollect the Spider Slayers, but they sure sound cool. :D
 
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ZenGalacticore

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5P8lrgBtcU[/youtube]


I did it!!!!! Jesus Jumpin' Mary and Joseph!! This is my first posting of a vid on SDC. Round of applause for the old guy!!!

Now if I could just figure out how to reformat and post pics!! :lol:
 
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a_lost_packet_

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ZenGalacticore":1l3n9d54 said:
I did it!!!!! Jesus Jumpin' Mary and Joseph!! This is my first posting of a vid on SDC. Round of applause for the old guy!!! Now if I could just figure out how to reformat and post pics!! :lol:

YAYZ! :D

/applause

As far as Spiderman goes, he was a true "everyman" for a generation.. or three.

Spiderman had trouble landing work, paying rent, relationship problems with "adults" and the occasional personal crisis with his girlfriend or girls in general. In short, Spiderman had the same life experiences and problems his readers had. He wasn't rich, he wasn't some brilliant scientist living on an island, he wasn't a mild-mannered reporter starching his collars by day and wearing tights by night, making sure to wipe in the proper direction and comb his pubes three times a day... Heck, he had problems keeping his shoes tied. Spiderman was an Everyman character for young people AND appealed to the older generation for exactly the same reasons.

Also, Spidey never took himself too seriously. Spiderman could sling insults as quick as he could sling webs. That's what I loved about Spiderman and why he was such a fun page-turner - You never knew what wisecrack he was going to make as he was getting pounded into the pavement. :)

(PS - Cool choice of a vid btw.)
 
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ZenGalacticore

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Well thanks Alp, and thanks for the clear instructions on posting utube vids.

The wisecracking Spidey was one of his most loveable traits. But he only turned into a wise-ass when he put the mask on. (They did show that in the recent films.)

One of the things that really made the '67 series was the "mod" music. IMO, most of the soundtrack was excellent, very cool and energetic music.

And the wisecracks, well, those were great. In "The Rhino", the Rhino is stealing gold shipments. Spiderman later discovers it's so the Rhino can make a solid gold statue of himself. When he espies the Rhino pouring the melted gold into the mold and bragging about himself to himself, Spidey-stuck high on the wall above the window he came in by- says, "Boy! Talk about egos!" :lol:

Oh yeah. Of course Peter Parker could have become rich with his spider powers, but, as Peter told himself, "that would be dishonest''. Besides, with the murder of his Uncle Ben, Pete had a higher calling. It's really quite a touching story, right up there with the best of them.
 
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