What might Opportunity find in Victoria Crater?

[brellis]

Hey gang! Question for anyone and everyone: What's on the list of possible discoveries or significant observations MER-B Opportunity might make once it finally enters Victoria Crater? I'm curious as to what can be gained from sending Oppy into what may be its final resting place, versus setting off horizontally. Is it worth the risk? What would it detect that it can't from the edge?<br /><br />Four years(!) into the rover missions, they've used their various instruments on a variety of rocks, both coarse and dusty material. Are there places in the crater that look to be different from what has been encountered so far? If they go in real deep, might they find some indications of life such as fossils or a different water signature?<br /><br />I'd love to hear what everyone says <i>before</i> she goes in!<br /><br />Looking forward to all thots,<br /><br />brad <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[dragon04]

Considering that there are two operational rovers still (amazingly!) on Mars, and considering their longevity vs. original mission, I think it's an okay "risk" to have a look down in Victoria.<br /><br />I wonder myself what the motivation is though.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[3488]

Steve Squyres, IMO is correct.<br /><br />MER B Opportunity is still near enough fully operational. It would be a travesty<br />to lose her in a moment of bad decision making.<br /><br />Obviously if MER B Opportunity was clearly failing with perhaps only a few sols left, then<br />yes, what the hell, we have nothing to lose.<br /><br />Opportunity is not at that stage. She could still have 400, 500 sols left,<br />more than enoough to complete yet another 'mission'<br />to elsewhere on Meridiani Planum.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[mvp347]

I think NASA will be postponing the descent into the crater with the discovery of what could possibly be a puddle of water.<br />I guess the question on everyone's mind is why NASA would risk ending Oppy's life when it is still almost fully functional. They will hopefully rethink the mission and decide that it just isn't the right time.<br />What could be found in the crater could tell us what the object that created it was made of. There might also be water ice down there also.

 

[anoolios]

I don't think the MER team buys the water puddle hypothesis one bit, it will have no bearing on their operations IMO.

 

[dragon04]

<font color="yellow">Opportunity is not at that stage. She could still have 400, 500 sols left,<br />more than enoough to complete yet another 'mission'<br />to elsewhere on Meridiani Planum.</font><br /><br />But other than some serendipitous discovery it might make, what advantage is there to merely covering more square kilometers in and of itself?<br /><br />I think that's probably at the heart of the matter for the MER team.<br /><br />It could be fairly argued that <b>because</b> Oppy is still as functional as it is, that's reason enough to "go for it".<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[thermionic]

From what I've read, it doesn't seem overly dangerous to go in and out of Victoria. Especially since they have the experience gained in Endurance. Opportunity has run into more trouble driving across the plains than in craters.<br /><br />As to what there is to be learned, a great deal I imagine. We have one data point about the chemical and mineral characteristics on the vertical axis. Another would give us a sense of distribution and the scale of structures. Since Victoria is lower and deeper than Endurance, we will be able to study doubly deeper strata. Remember deeper means older.<br /><br />I don't know (or believe ) that they have any expectation of finding water or fossils, although that woud be fantastic. But simply creating a larger map of soil characteristics is a huge advance in our knowledge of Mars. imho.

 

[MeteorWayne]

Just because Oppy has lasted 20 times it's scheduled lifetime, doesn't mean it couldn't croak tomorrow.<br /><br />If enough can be learned from driving into the crater, that may be a good use of the remaining lifetime.<br /><br />It is up to folks like Steve Squyres (sp?) to make the decisions, it's their Energizer Bunny <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[dragon04]

Risk vs. Benefit. It's a pretty straightforward principle. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[robnissen]

<font color="yellow">From what I've read, it doesn't seem overly dangerous to go in and out of Victoria.</font><br /><br />Maybe. One of things NASA admits, is that if Oppy were to lose the same wheel that Spirit lost, it will probably never make it out of the crater -- they don't think they can back out. Now that being said, as much as we all live and die with Oppy's wonderful discoveries, I think we can be sure that the Oppy team lives and dies at least ten times as much. Thus, I am quite sure that there is science to be done in the crater that is well worth the risk of Oppy being stuck there. But to go back to the original poster's question: I sure what like to know what da sam hill that would be?

 

[anthmartian]

I'm just worried it may "short out" as it drives through a deep puddle of water on a steep crater slope!!!<br /><br />Seriously, i asked before in another topic if there was anything close, or any realistic targets for oppy which it could make it to which offer more than Victoria.<br /><br />If Oppy was to suffer some break down on a barren plain on its way to somewhere having left such as place as Victoria crater behind, a lot of people will be left looking silly.<br /><br />I saw an interview with Steve Squyres on the Sky at Night TV show here in the UK a couple of months ago. At that time he was leaning towards sending the Rover into Victoria due to there being nothing within what he considered a realistic range. But some posts i have seen here lately seem to suggest he has changed his mind. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em>"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"</em></font></p><p><font color="#33cccc"><strong>Han Solo - 1977 - A long time ago in a galaxy far far away....</strong></font></p><p><br /><br />Click Here And jump over to my site.<br /></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Probably my last post for about a week.<br /><br />The main thing that can be learned driving long distances is the lateral variation in rock types. For example, the changes in sediment type that might be encountered if Opportunity were to move from the centre of an ancient lake deposit to its shore.<br /><br />But to get maximum advantage from this we would have to learn the vertical variation first. The only was is from a detailed study of the walls of the crater, if possible using tools like the MI, mini TES, RAT, Mossbauer, etc. So Opportunity needs to go into Victoria.<br /><br />Jon<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[3488]

Hi Jon,<br /><br />Doing anything or going somewhere interesting?????<br /><br />How about MER B Opportunity going to Ithaca Crater???<br /><br />I think that this would be really worthwhile.<br /><br />Would not rule out MER B Opportunity getting there without incidnet (dust<br />dunes permitting).<br /><br />Perhaps the MRO HiRISE could be used to image the route????<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[centsworth_II]

<font color="yellow">"One of things NASA admits, is that if Oppy were to lose the same wheel <br />that Spirit lost, it will probably never make it out of the crater..."</font><br /><br />If Opportunity lost a wheel, it might not be able to get out of Victoria, <br />but it wouldn't be able to get very far across the sand dunes of Meridiani<br />either. Probably it couldn't even get back to Erebus. So in my mind, on<br />five wheels, the only possible thing Opportunity could do of any value <br />would be to make the best of dragging itself into Victoria, studying the <br />layers as it descends. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[centsworth_II]

<font color="yellow">"I think it's an okay 'risk' to have a look down in Victoria.<br />I wonder myself what the motivation is though."</font><br /><br />More layers! Remember, the MERs are robot geologists. And<br />geologists like rock layers more than just about anything. The<br />deeper you get the farther back in time you see, like astronomers<br />seeking to see more distant stars to look back in time.<br /><br />Opportunity got a good, close look at the layering in Endurance crater.<br />Victoria offers a look at a thicker section -- more layers. The details of <br />those layers -- berry concentration and appearance, chemical composition,<br />presence and character of voids and grains, etc. None of this can be <br />determined from a distance and all of it is very important to seeing<br />into the history of the region.<br /><br />Given the choice of the next year or two for Opportunity resembling<br />the time spent in Endurance or resembling the time spent on the long <br />(often boring) trip getting to Victoria, I'll take the former. <br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Hi Andrew<br /><br />Verifying gomorphic mapping units on Gunbower Island and west along the Murray River. Digging soil pits for profile charcterisation and sampling. Eating our way through the restauraunts. I leave in 30 minutes!<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[3488]

Have a good time my freind.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>