What techs do we need to start colonizing?

[fear]

What new technologies and knowledge do you think we need to develop before we can colonize space? Also how long will it be before we have all the prerequisites put together? To name a few things, I think this is what we’ve got to get straight first:<br /><br />*Cost effective access to space from Earth (the holly grail of space flight probably)<br /><br />*The ability to maintain and balance an artificial ecosystem<br /><br />*Smelting in zero gravity<br /><br />*Large scale manufacturing in zero g (or on places like the moon and mars)<br /><br />*Refining very raw materials in to useful things like solar panels and rubber for airlocks <br /><br />*Any sort of method for dealing with very long term radiation exposure (doesn’t have to be shielding, just some way to deal with it)<br /><br />*Also some idea of how easy it is to reproduce in space (I don't think finding volunteers will be a problem) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[nexium]

Self sufficient colonies in space need all of these and more. We won't get to self sufficient unless we build more dependent colonies such as the ISS = international space station.<br />CNT = carbon nano tubes is our best bet for a big reduction in cost. I hope we are persuing this with vigor.<br />We need to do another simulation of living in space (ecosystem) even though the first two produced disappointing results.<br />We can do only limited simulations of the next 3 on Earth's surface, where there is no practical way to produce low g for more than a few seconds.<br />I suppose we have not tested magnetic nor electrostatic shielding in space because it is likely to interfer with other space craft systems. A dedicated mission should be scheduled soon.<br />My guess is reproduction is not a big nor urgent problem to test. Neil

 

[Boris_Badenov]

<font color="yellow"> *Also some idea of how easy it is to reproduce in space (I don't think finding volunteers will be a problem) </font><br /><br /> An embryo reqiures gravity to form.<br /><br /><font color="yellow"> *The ability to maintain and balance an artificial ecosystem </font><br /><br /> This is the real key, if you have to ship every ounce of food from Mother Earth, space colonies will not be able to grow. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

You mentioned Carbon nano-tubes. The Discovery Channel aired the first season Extreme Engineering episode Pyramid City (proposed for Tokyo Bay) which included "self-assembly nano-tubes." Sound real handy in space. What do you think?<br /><br />BTW: Unlike later seasons, the first season was actually more engineering than construction. If I have a problem with the first season, it's why would anyone want a bridge from Alaska to Siberia or from Spain to Morocco? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>An embryo requires gravity to form.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Have researchers confirmed that with mice or something? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><li>Smelting in zero gravity<p><hr /></p></li></p></blockquote><br />Actually, unless you are mining asteroids, true zero gravity (more correctly called "micro-gravity") is not a problem. Both the Moon and Mars have some. Neither might not be Earth's gravity, but both should support smelting. It just might take longer.<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><li>Refining very raw materials in to useful things like solar panels and rubber for airlocks<p><hr /></p></li></p></blockquote><br />Where can we get raw materials in space that can be turned into elastomers like Rubber or neoprene? Most elastomers are made from parts of the Rubber tree, oil, or corn. Good luck finding those in space.<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><li>Also some idea of how easy it is to reproduce in space (I don't think finding volunteers will be a problem)<p><hr /></p></li></p></blockquote><br />Sex is the easy part. As Boris mentioned, reproduction is tough. Medical facilities in space will need to improve. We need at least primitive hospitals. What happens if the baby has to be born 8 weeks early? At that point, you need to incubate the baby for a month before it can survive on its own. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[fear]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p> CNT = carbon nano tubes is our best bet for a big reduction in cost. I hope we are persuing this with vigor.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote> There seems to be a lot of excitement in the field at least. Hopefully that will translate into breakthroughs and its not just all brouhaha.<br /><br />In regards to the biosphere experiment I don’t know why they haven’t tried that again. The last one didn’t work because they ignored the soil bacteria, which proceeded to gobble up all the oxygen. I suppose if you used sterilized sand and pumped nutrients + water through the sand you could grow crops hydroponically with sand as a root medium. <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[fear]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p> An embryo reqiures gravity to form.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote> Bicycle wheel space station <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> ? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[fear]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Where can we get raw materials in space that can be turned into elastomers like Rubber or neoprene? Most elastomers are made from parts of the Rubber tree, oil, or corn. Good luck finding those in space.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote> I think the atoms for it are out there at least in comets. Go to the flash site for the deep impact mission ( http://deepimpact.umd.edu/flash/di_science.htm ) , click interior composition and there’s carbon on the little graph that pops up. As you say though, probably a lot easier going from a tree to rubber than from basic elements to rubber, fertilizer, and every organic material we need.<br /><br />One thing I’ve wondered about is if there is oil on Mars. Supposing there was life on Mars once why couldn’t oil form? You don’t need complex life to make oil all you need is a lot of algae or something equivalent to get buried and then rot into oil or natural gas.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Supposing there was life on Mars once why couldn’t oil form? You don’t need complex life to make oil all you need is a lot of algae or something equivalent to get buried and then rot into oil or natural gas.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />How are you going to get to that oil? You would end up spending a lot of energy searching and drilling. And when you succeed, I doubt you will find anything like the stocks here on Earth. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[why06]

I think space farming will be the next fronteir..., but how are we gonna get good crops... no one wants a mushy apple. We won't be able to pollinate withe bees either. I don't think they can fly in low gravity. <br />We will have to pollinate them ourselves and induce at least some kind of Gravity. After all we don't 20ft bannanas. Or some othet strange thing <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><br /><br /><br /><br /><font color="yellow"> ... AS for fuel I don't think we have to worry about that. Let's just go get some on Saturn's Titan. IT<b> Rains Natural Gas There </b><br /><br />.hmmmm I wonder why it doesn't explode...no air maybe <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Actually, your bees would fly, just not in a controlled manner.<br /><br />As for your signature, I should note the Titan <i><b><font color="yellow">does</font>/b></b></i> have air. What that air lacks is oxygen. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

fear asked; Also some idea of how easy it is to reproduce in space (I don't think finding volunteers will be a problem) <br /><br /> I responded;An embryo reqiures gravity to form. <br /><br /> willpittenger asked;Have researchers confirmed that with mice or something? <br /><br /><br /> Sex in Space: Imagine the Possibilities <br /><br />On a cautionary note, men and women in their childbearing years will need to be careful not to conceive a child while in space since it may be dangerous to the mother and baby. Based on animal experiments, we know that fetal development is affected in space. Bones, muscles (including the heart), and neurology, will simply not develop properly without Earth gravity. We also know that human hormones and even sperm motility are affected by the lack of gravity. Radiation is a serous problem too, even in Earth orbit where our magnetic field protects us somewhat. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[why06]

That's what I mean... no air..meant to say no oxygen since air is amix of gasses <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>

 

[docm]

PhysOrg article on inflatable polar/space colony habs.... <br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>><br />The most efficient way to generate heat from sunlight is, of course, the well-known "greenhouse" effect. Given a transparent or translucent roof, any structure can hold onto the energy of sunlight long enough to transform it into heat. Glass works well for this, but glass is heavy and expensive to transport.<br /><br />Some good alternatives to glass are now available, however, and more options are on the way. Innovative manufacturing techniques have created many useful composite materials, including translucent, flexible membranes such as Saint-Gobain’s Sheerfill®. While these materials are certainly more expensive than glass, very little is required to construct a useful shelter.<br /><br />In a recent article submitted to arXiv.org (Cornell U. library), Bolonkin and Cathcart have designed an inflatable, translucent dome that can heat its interior to comfortable temperatures using only the weak sunlight of high latitudes. While many details remain to be worked out, the essential concept is sound. To improve the energy efficiency of the structure, they propose adding multiple insulating layers, aluminum-coated shutters, and a fine electrical network to sense damage to the structure. The dome would be supported entirely by the pressure of the air inside, which can be adjusted to compensate for the added buoyancy caused by high winds.<br /><br />The principle advantages of this design are the low weight and flexibility of the material. If only a few people at a time need shelter, an enclosure the size of a small house would weigh only about 65 kg, or as much as a person. This is light enough even for a space mission, and setting up would be as easy as turning on an air pump. For large colonies, enough mem</p></blockquote> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[why06]

Very cool,<br />And I didn't realize your signature was in latin.... <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br />( "pacem" is the accusative form of "pax" or "peace")<br /><br /><font color="yellow">how about this one:<font color="white"> "Quis tu es?"</font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>

 

[owenander]

Without a more efficient engine to take our vehicles to outer space none of this is even possible.

 

[why06]

Don't worry I'll post something meaningful when I'm not tired.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">-Good Night- <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <br /><br /><br /><br /></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>even in Earth orbit where our magnetic field protects us somewhat.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />One detail to mention there. That is LEO only. In fact, even though everyone gripes about the Shuttle being LEO-only, it can go higher than most people realize. During Hubble's launch (and probably each servicing mission), astronauts saw tiny streaks going through their eyes. Those were cosmic rays. The crew for the upcoming service mission had better be prepared. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[docm]

why06;<br /><br /><b>Genesis 27:18</b><br /><br />(LV) quibus inlatis dixit pater mi et ille respondit audio quis tu es fili mi<br /><br />(KJv)<font color="yellow"> And he came unto his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I; who art thou, my son?</font>/safety_wrapper> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

I am afraid I am unable to determine the context of your reply. Which post did you want to reply to? It would help if you clicked the correct Reply link. In linear mode, each post has its own Reply button. If you use that, we all know which post you used. Please don't be lazy and just use the most recent post. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[saurc]

Space farming will be rather difficult and will definitely need some kind of artificial gravity. The thing is, the size of the habitat will need to be rather large to feed a human being.<br /><br />I think it would be more sensible to only recycle oxygen on the spacecraft and ship up the food from Earth from time to time. Oxygen recycling can be easily done using some hydrophonic plants which don't take up much space.<br /><br />And yes, there is no oxygen on titan, so the hydrocarbons there dont burn <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[j05h]

<i>> Space farming will be rather difficult and will definitely need some kind of artificial gravity. </i><br /><br />I should trust not. Farming in freefall will allow much lighter structures and provide interesting new ways to grow crops. Space farming will move away from "fields" to something akin to the Hanging Gardens in ancient Babylon. <br /><br />Did you know that tomato and potato plants can be combined? It's a fairly simple issue of splicing together the top of a tomato to the root of a potato, they are cousin species. In freefall you could build big float bubbles of crops like that, preferably living symbiotically with fish & molluscs.<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>I should trust not. Farming in freefall will allow much lighter structures and provide interesting new ways to grow crops. Space farming will move away from "fields" to something akin to the Hanging Gardens in ancient Babylon.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />I question that. We know that many complex animals can't reproduce without gravity. (It has been discussed in other threads.) I doubt complex plants are much different. We know their roots and stems need gravity to tell them where to grow. Soil is down. Sunlight is up. Plants have the part nice and simple. They need it to stay that way.<br /><br />As for the "Space farming will move away from "fields" to something akin to the Hanging Gardens in ancient Babylon" part, I should note we already have technology called Hydroponics. Nutrients are provided to plants via hanging their roots, not in soil, but in water laden with those nutrients. With many crops, I suspect traditional fields are already disappearing. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[mithridates]

An article just came out on this very subject today:<br /><br />http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=21865 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>----- </p><p>http://mithridates.blogspot.com</p> </div>