What type of equipment will go along?

[astrophoto]

So with the new vision details coming forward, has anything been said about the equipment that will be sent and tested? I figure that they will want to create equipment that will function on both the Moon and on Mars with minor adjustments made.<br /><br />I can think of a few things off the top of my head, but wondered if a tentative list had been proposed. Things like:<br /><br />Astronaut transport ground vehicles<br />Water generator from local materials<br />Oxygen generator from local materials<br />Inflatable habitats and moorings<br />New data transmission equipment<br />Radiation shielding<br /><br /><br />Another question - since the whole Moon is in play, I take it we will explore more of the poles. What about the interference-dark side of the Moon? Facing away from Earth at all times, it must be shielded from alot of the noise we generate.<br /><br />

 

[nexium]

Many tentative lists have been made, but nothing official is my guess. Since they are thinking double or tripple pay load for more people, for twice as long? items need to be small and light. Except for radiation shielding all the items you mentioned seem prudent small scale. An experimental electrostatic shielding could be tested. A super-conducting magnetic shield is a good bet for shaded areas near the poles.<br />Hardly more than a cell phone is needed to talk to the Earth from the Earth facing side, while an elaborate relay system is needed from the side facing away from Earth.My guess is the polar areas are as close to shielded from earth, we will do before the 8 th mission. Neil

 

[cuddlyrocket]

"A super-conducting magnetic shield is a good bet for shaded areas near the poles."<br /><br />Dirt is the best bet for radiation shielding. It's a proven technology.<br /><br />Once a base is up and running, then you can test speculative technology.

 

[CalliArcale]

Water works really well also. I could see some sort of regenerative water supply where the drinking water and waste water and water in various states of treatment was stored in tanks around the exterior of the habitat.<br /><br />Dirt does have some excellent advantages, though. I remember reading a few years back about one guy developing methods for making adobe structures out of regolith in an airless environment. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[erikm]

Whatever is taken along, a lot of it will probably be capable of being used both by astronauts and (through a relay) tele-operated from earth.<br /><br />Some kind of manned rover is inevitable given the added mobility. Astronauts can move around faster and explore more in the very limited and extremely expensive time available. Even so, the rover will probably be fully remote-driveable and should have its own arm/grabber so that it could be sent out while the humans are doing other things (sleeping comes to mind). It ought to have its own uplink to talk to earth control. It would probably also be used as an unmanned explorer after the crew leaves.<br /><br />A group of smaller (Mars Pathfinder size) robots could also be prepositioned at the landing site of a later mission. The advantage to NASA would be that astronauts could unpack them and make sure everything works. This might sound trivial but it removes a lot of design/test headaches.<br /><br />The external-use equipment should also be semi-modular, ideally with a universal power/data jack. Cameras for instance could be attached to suit mounts, manned or unmanned rovers or mounted on a tripod (also equipped with a shortrange radio and a solar panel). As preparations to leave are being made, instruments not wanted on the return trip can be plugged into a relay (like a rover) for unmanned use. This should also make maintainance/repair possible. Few things would be as frustrating to NASA as an otherwise fully operational rover with a broken navigation camera.<br /><br />Cheers,<br /> ErikM

 

[flynn]

A great big microwave that can melt the regolith around a future base to prevent the ingress of dust and to make roads.<br /><br />Newscientist had a good artical on "moondust" a few months ago, I'll see if I can find it.<br /><br />*Its a subscriber artical so heres a link if any of you are interested.<br /><br />http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/mg18625012.000 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#800080">"All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring. We must never, ever be boring" - <strong>Chuck Palahniuk</strong>.</font> </div>

 

[barrykirk]

Well, we could also eventually test hydroponics in lunar soil... It would be a good warmup before mars...

 

[steve82]

I wouldn't worry about the radiation shielding on the moon. Just pile up a few feet of moon dirt over your habitat and that should be all you'll need. If the transit time is short enough, radiation should be less of a problem than it is on the ISS.

 

[astrophoto]

Radiation shielding may not be necessary for life on the Moon, but we are using the Moon as practice for sending people to Mars, right? So given that we're going to have to ship humans a few months to Mars, stay for some number of weeks/months, then ship them months back to Earth, we're definitely going to need some shielding technology.<br /><br />Now whether that makes sense to test on the Moon or at some other point in mid-space is open for debate, but it's not something we can truly test on Earth or LEO in my opinion.<br /><br />As for the other equipment, do any of you have examples of existing technologies that will take Moon regolith type materials and extract out the necessaries?

 

[crix]

<img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> Neat idea!

 

[flynn]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>As for the other equipment, do any of you have examples of existing technologies that will take Moon regolith type materials and extract out the necessaries? <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Not sure how far they have got with it but there is work ongoing reguarding the manufacture of solar cells from regolith.<br /><br />One quick thought out of nowhere to be shot down. When it comes to going to mars why not build a double skinned shelter module and before launch fill the cavity with regolith? You'd have a light weight launch from earth and add the bulk in lunar orbit. Just a thought, although I suspect the combined ferrying about of pulling it off would excede that of just launching from Earth in the first place. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#800080">"All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring. We must never, ever be boring" - <strong>Chuck Palahniuk</strong>.</font> </div>

 

[barrykirk]

Many ages ago, I saw a concept floated about where a mass driver could be built on the moon. Power this mass driver with, Solar Cells/ Nuclear, possibly using batteries for an accumulator.<br /><br />If we can make solar cells out of the lunar regolith then we are part way their.<br /><br />With such a mass driver, cargo transport from the lunar surface would be efficient. Just put a catcher in lunar orbit.<br /><br />Remember that from the lunar surface, escape velocity is very low and their is no air friction.

 

[flynn]

Here it is, again it is a subscription artical but heres the start.<br /><br />Lunar colony to run on moon dust and robots <br />22 January 2005 <br />Celeste Biever <br />Magazine issue 2483 <br />SIMULATED moon dust has been used to make a key component of a working solar cell, giving an unexpected boost to President George W. Bush's project of setting up a colony on the moon. <br /><br />Bush's plan, announced a year ago, envisages a permanent lunar base from which people can go out and explore the moon, and then go on to Mars. "We will need a power source," says David Williams, a planetary and lunar scientist at NASA's National Space Science Data Center in Greenbelt, Maryland. "Bringing stuff up from Earth is really expensive." <br /><br />Four years ago, Alex Freundlich and his colleagues at the University of Houston in Texas came up with the idea of getting robotic rovers to build solar cells entirely out of lunar dust or "regolith" (New Scientist, 24 June 2000, p 14). This fine, grey powder is half silicon dioxide, with the remainder made up of a ...<br /><br />http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/mg18524836.200 <br /><br />*EDIT* Full artical at Space Daily.<br /><br /> http://www.spacedaily.com/news/lunar-05b.html<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#800080">"All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring. We must never, ever be boring" - <strong>Chuck Palahniuk</strong>.</font> </div>

 

[flynn]

Heres that full artical on moon dust I mentioned earlier.<br /><br />Its a good read.<br /><br />http://lifesci.arc.nasa.gov/docs/NS_Dust.pdf <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#800080">"All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring. We must never, ever be boring" - <strong>Chuck Palahniuk</strong>.</font> </div>

 

[astrophoto]

Flynn,<br /><br />That's a wonderful article and should be read by everyone. It shows how we're approaching this next leg onto the Moon far differently than they did in Apollo. All of these studies and the equipment that will be derived from them will help us to establish a more permanent presence on our neighbor.<br /><br />Thanks, it was a great read!

 

[krrr]

<font color="yellow">Water works really well also.</font><br /><br />Typically, the lander will have a decent amount of residual LOX and LH2 propellant left, which can be put to good use.<br /><br />If only to burn in a stove in order to heat a habitat during lunar nights. The combustion product is, of course, water.

 

[flynn]

Cheers, I only wish I could write a report and make it sound even half as good. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#800080">"All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring. We must never, ever be boring" - <strong>Chuck Palahniuk</strong>.</font> </div>