Where does water come from?

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cosmictraveler

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<p><font size="4">We have allot of water here on Earth but exactly where in space does it originate from? They claim that the water here is from comets and other astronomical things that hit the Earth causing water to happen. Where does this water emanate from in space&nbsp;? </font></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>It does not require many words to speak the truth. Chief Joseph</p> </div>
 
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centsworth_II

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Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, oxygen is the third most abundant, and they love to get together to make water.&nbsp; So water is very common all across the universe.&nbsp; There is much of it in the gas and dust clouds that eventually form stars and planets... and comets. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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cosmictraveler

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<p><font size="4">So why is it that water isn't seen when the space shuttle is above the Earth? Or when the ISS is up there and they look out the window and don't see any water drops on the windows?&nbsp; I know that hydrogen is abundant but oxygen is a very rare gas not easily found in space so how is it they come to form water then? </font></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>It does not require many words to speak the truth. Chief Joseph</p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>So why is it that water isn't seen when the space shuttle is above the Earth? Or when the ISS is up there and they look out the window and don't see any water drops on the windows?&nbsp; I know that hydrogen is abundant but oxygen is a very rare gas not easily found in space so how is it they come to form water then? &nbsp;&nbsp; <br />Posted by cosmictraveler</DIV><br /><br />The density of the atmosphere (air which includes water vapor) is so low up there, here on earth it would be considered a vaccuum. There aren't enough water molecules to make drops. Besides, at that temperature it would be ice, not water, but because of the low pressure they dissapate very fast.</p><p>When the shuttle dumps excess water (which it has to do occasionally) the liguid instantly freezes into ice particles which create a cloud around the shuttle. For those that Have seen it, it's quite a spectacular sigyht form the ground, since the ice reflects sunlight. But within minutes, the ice sublimates into gas and is spread out so much it can't be seen any more.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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cosmictraveler

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<p>&nbsp;</p><p><font size="4">Could Dark Matter then be really tiny pieces of ice that cannot be detected then? I mean if there's water in the universe then why can't it be seen?</font></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>It does not require many words to speak the truth. Chief Joseph</p> </div>
 
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centsworth_II

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<p><span style="color:#333399"><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I know that hydrogen is abundant but oxygen is a very rare gas not easily found in space so how is it they come to form water then? &nbsp;&nbsp; </span><br /> Posted by cosmictraveler</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;Like I said, oxygen is the third most plentiful element in the universe -- not so rare.&nbsp; Plenty enough in any case to do this:</p><p><font size="2" color="#000080">"Astronomers have discovered an interstellar gas cloud bloated with enough water vapor to fill all the Earth's oceans at least 1 million times.... "The interstellar gas cloud that we observed in Orion seems to be a huge chemical factory, generating enough water molecules in a single day to fill the Earth's oceans 60 times over," said Neufeld. </font></p><p><font size="2" color="#000080"> The total amount of water detected would fill the Earth's oceans about 1 million times. Moreover, scientists suspect that the cloud may contain 50 times more water than the amount actually detected...."<u>http://www.jhu.edu/~gazette/aprjun98/apr2098/20astro.html</u></font></p><p>Of course interstellar space is really spread out, so all that water still exists in what you would experience as a vacuum. </p><p><br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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centsworth_II

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<p><font color="#333399"><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;Could Dark Matter then be really tiny pieces of ice that cannot be detected then? I mean if there's water in the universe then why can't it be seen?&nbsp;&nbsp; <br /> Posted by cosmictraveler</DIV></font></p><p>As you see in my previous post, water can be seen, if looked for with the right equipment.&nbsp; They have been looking long enough with the right equipment to know that there is no way for water, ice, or any other matter as we know it, to be the "Dark Matter".</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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aphh

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<p>Hydrogen likes to burn. 2H2 + O2 = 2H20</p><p>If Hydrogen gets in the same space with Oxygen, they'll mate and the offspring will be Water. </p>
 
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DrRocket

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The density of the atmosphere (air which includes water vapor) is so low up there, here on earth it would be considered a vaccuum. There aren't enough water molecules to make drops. Besides, at that temperature it would be ice, not water, but because of the low pressure they dissapate very fast.When the shuttle dumps excess water (which it has to do occasionally) the liguid instantly freezes into ice particles which create a cloud around the shuttle. For those that Have seen it, it's quite a spectacular sigyht form the ground, since the ice reflects sunlight. But within minutes, the ice sublimates into gas and is spread out so much it can't be seen any more. <br />Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV></p><p>You have your finger on the basic issue which is pressure.</p><p>Let's keep this discussion classical (no quantum vacuum stuff, etc.).&nbsp; Temperature is the average kinetic energy per molecule per degree of freedom in a substance, or what is the same thing it is the average kinetic energy of translation of the molecule.&nbsp; The notion of temperature is thermodynamic and hence statistical in nature and only applies to reasonably large collection of molecules.&nbsp; In a vacuum there are not enough molecules, ideally none, to make temperature a viable concept.&nbsp; So space is not really neither cold nor hot, though objects in space can become very cold due to radiation to the background or very hot due to absorption of energy from the sun, or hot on one side and cold on the other -- see below.</p><p>Space does have some photons that can provide energy via radiation.&nbsp; And it can serve to accept photons emitted by a body in space.&nbsp; So you immediately have some radiative heat transfer going on.&nbsp; But for materials at moderate temperatures that radiative loss of heat is relatively slow (i.e. no&nbsp;great amount of heat is lost or gained essentially instantaneously).</p><p>But&nbsp;a liquid like water thrown into space has a temperature, and that temperature is reflected in a bunch of molecules moving around at various speeds. the distribution of speeds being determined by the temperature, or vice versa.&nbsp; And in space there are no other water molecules flying around that could potentially hit and enter the glob that is thrown out.&nbsp;&nbsp;In&nbsp;fact there are no outside water molecules to the ambient partial pressure of water is&nbsp;0, but the pressure in the&nbsp;glob is something larger than&nbsp;0. &nbsp;So what happens is that the faster, hotter molecules escape to the vacuum and the cooler ones are left behind.&nbsp; That is called boiling.&nbsp; Just as water boils at a lower temperature on top of a mountain than it does at sea level (ever try to cook rice at 11,000 ft ?) so water in space boils at a VERY low temperature.&nbsp; When the hotter molecules escape, depart the area, and leave the cooler ones behind the glob cools, this is called loss of heat of evaporation.&nbsp; That happens really fast, since the ambient environment is a vacuum.&nbsp; When it cools enough it freezes into a solid.&nbsp; But ice also has a vapor pressure since the molecules sitll have kinetic energy and are not completely bound to one another&nbsp;and they are still in a vacuum.&nbsp; So the solid glob continues to loose molecules (sublimation) and continues to cool.&nbsp; In short order it disappears&nbsp;due to continued sublimation.&nbsp;<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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CalliArcale

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Just as a "for instance" of how abundant water really is, most of the objects in the outer solar system (excluding the gas giants) are made largely of water, in the form of ice frozen as hard as rock. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Just as a "for instance" of how abundant water really is, most of the objects in the outer solar system (excluding the gas giants) are made largely of water, in the form of ice frozen as hard as rock. <br />Posted by CalliArcale</DIV><br /><br />I think that remains to be seen. There is a continuum of rock/ice mixtures. I don't think we can say for sure exactly what the percentages are. We have sampled far too small amount of such objects. Beyond Neptune, we have only spectrographic signatures on a few of the largest objects (where sufficient photons can be accumulated for spectroscopy). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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CalliArcale

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I think that remains to be seen. There is a continuum of rock/ice mixtures. I don't think we can say for sure exactly what the percentages are. We have sampled far too small amount of such objects. Beyond Neptune, we have only spectrographic signatures on a few of the largest objects (where sufficient photons can be accumulated for spectroscopy). <br /> Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV></p><p>True.&nbsp; But it does seem that the more we search, the more icy bodies we find out there. Clearly, water is abundant out there if it's able to form the bulk of such massive objects as Titan.&nbsp; Get far enough from the Sun for ice to stay frozen, and you get lots of icy worlds. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>
 
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