Where's the probe to Europa

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3488

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Sorry Joel, that I did not thank you for your earlier reply. I understand what you<br />said about sharing spacecraft designs & instruments for differing locations within the Solar System.<br /><br />Of course a Europa or a Jupiter Orbiter in general would have to be redesigned from the <br />bottom up, so to speak.<br /><br />Yes I agree, lets land a fully instrumented craft on Europa equiped with a <br />seismometer, tiltmeter & high res panoramic cameras.<br /><br />An orbiter to operate simultaneously. Just how expensive would this really be<br />if we could remove much of the bureaucracy?<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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willpittenger

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Accurate seismological readings take more than some people might think. First, you need a series of seismometers stationed around the globe. You can't just put one into a lander and expect it to work accurately. The seismometers in the Viking probes are proof. They registered wind. Europa might not have wind, but the lander's legs would amplify the movements. Ideally, we would melt a twenty foot shaft into the ice and lower the seismometer until it rests in the bottom. The opening has to be sealed to allow the water to refreeze without vaporizing away. This probably means supplying a small amount of air to allow the water to have someplace to go as the sensor is lowered in and then the water freezes.<br /><br />Second, you need an impact. This could be from an used up orbiter or a specially designed impacter. The Deep Space 2 design, if it worked (which we don't know), would probably suffice. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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no_way

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>An orbiter to operate simultaneously. Just how expensive would this really be if we could remove much of the bureaucracy? <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Google Lunar X-Prize will give a good indication of scales for that question.
 
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jsmoody

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No need to drill down miles to reach any possible ocean, nor to send a sub. <br /><br />The cracks in Europa are where the ice has broken and material from the interior, liquid water, has welled up from beneath and refrozen in the cracks. Put a lander in a crack and look for frozen life. If water from below is welling up into the cracks, then there should be traces of it frozen there. No need for a sub to find out if there is any life down below.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> No amount of belief makes something a fact" - James Randi </div>
 
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h2ouniverse

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Yes, certainly. But then you need to pre-identify such sites. And have the ability to drill several meters to get bio-materail not too much degraded by radiations.
 
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h2ouniverse

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Hi Andrew,<br />in reply to<br />--------------<br />"I understand what you said about sharing spacecraft designs & instruments for differing locations within the Solar System. "<br />--------------<br />I still abide by that statement. However, Io and Europa are special because of their environment, inducing some specifity on the platform avionics if you want an orbiter instead of a by-flyer.<br />But all other solid planetary bodies would qualify imho.<br /><br />Regards.
 
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3488

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Such veins IMO should exist, but finding them will be very difficult.<br /><br />An orbiter will definately be the first step, but an orbiter / lander, combi like Viking<br />would be really usefull. Using what we have from Galileo (which is already quite a lot),<br />I think we could identify an interesting site, such as this area in Conamara Chaos.<br /><br />Also a real close up here of the 'split berg' Conamara Chaos.<br /><br />A good place to land I think. I think the 'veins' of suspected ocean material may<br />exist in this area, assuming the said ocean actually exists.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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nimbus

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But isn't looking for definitive clues of life like looking for needles in a haystack? What if life over there is rare enough that it took as long as it's taken us to discover some of the life forms in the abyss of our own oceans? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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h2ouniverse

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Well, on Earth, we always found something whenever we bothered to have a look.<br />What has limited discoveries of exotic lifeforms on Earth has been essentially the lack of imagination (and to a lesser extent the technology). Since first discoveries of extremophiles in the 90's, the discovery rate has accelerated because people began to ponder more "whatifs".<br /><br />Best regards.<br />
 
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3488

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This on Spaceflightnow.com.<br /><br />Looks like some serious R & D for follow on Europa studies is being discussed in official circles. <br /><br />Yours truly here has been involved in sending in ideas. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> Happy Christmas everyone. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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h2ouniverse

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Hi Andrew,<br /><br />Interesting indeed. Confirms what have been discussed for L.<br />And too that such payload type is suitable for an Universal Orbiter Explorer.<br /><br />Regards. <br />And Happy Christmas!
 
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