Why didn't they take images of Jupiter with the Galileo?

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fatal291

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Why didn't they take images of Jupiter's atmosphere with the Galileo as it plunged into the planet? I would have liked to have seen what it looked like. I know there is no surface and it most likely would have been all fog, but I'd want to see it still. Is there any simulations of the weather or any type of Galileo descending simulation?
 
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docm

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I would presume that at the speed it was going very soon after it entered the Jovian atmosphere it was in a plasma induced communications blackout. No comms, no way to send the pictures. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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willpittenger

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Wouldn't the antenna's burn up (or more likely, melt) first? I figure it would either be them or the arm holding the RTG. Once that went, no more power. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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docm

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The high gain would likely go first; it was a fine mesh spun by a womens stocking manufacturer <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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willpittenger

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Qso1 posted some images showing what it <font color="yellow">might</font>look like in a thread inside the Amazing Images forum. You might PM him and ask if he still has them. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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willpittenger

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Come to think of it, as the pressure built, it might have started tumbling before anything failed. Unlike its probe, Galileo was not built with entering an atmosphere in mind. Once you start tumbling, no one can hear you no matter how much is working. I don't know how the MERs were able to report their status during the landing phase. They did somehow. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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3488

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Hi all.<br /><br />Galileo's high Gain Antenna, never unfurled properly. The mesh was made as DOCM said by <br />ladies at a stocking factory. This mesh was attached to eighteen ribs, which where <br />hinged at the base & came together at the top of a 'mast'.<br /><br />The HGA was to remain folded up like a closed umbrella, until after the first Earth encounter, <br />but before the Asteroid 951 Gaspra encounter. This was to protect the electronics whilst <br />Galileo was close to the Sun.<br /><br />When the command was sent to open the HGA (should have been a simple five minute<br />routine operation), telemetry showed that the motor to open it was still operating after <br />ten minutes & drawing more & more current, until the 'stall' software kicked in & shut it off. <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /><br /><br />Galileo whilst still spin stabilised was showing a regular, very slight wobble motion, consistant<br />with the HGA being only 'open' on one side. <img src="/images/icons/crazy.gif" /><br /><br />further analysis showed that three or four of the eighteen ribs were still attached to the <br />central 'mast'. <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /><br /><br />Various things were tried to free them. One was to repeat the initial opening sequence. That failed. <br /><br />Then the motor was reprogrammed to start, stop, start stop, thousands of times <br />like a 'hammering' proceedure. Whilst indications showed that this did free one extra rib, <br />the HGA still remained half closed. <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /><br /><br />Than thermal variations were tried, by facing the HGA into the Sun, to 'warm' it slightly, <br />than to turn it away to cool it, hoping that the temperature variations would <br />'warp it free'. That failed too. <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /><br /><br />Then the 'cold soak' was tried, when the HGA was kept in the shade for an extended period<br />to cool it to around minus 210 Celsius / 63 Kelvin. This was to try & shrink the ribs f <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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willpittenger

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>The MERs AFAIK had a 'whip' like antenna which was used to transmit during decent.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />While bouncing on their airbags? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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vandivx

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sorry but it doesn't sound believable that the lack of lubricant would lock up pin-hinged antena struts<br /><br />I have a camera stative made of iron rods connected by bolts where its supposed to hinge and it has been lying about some twenty or thirty odd years in damp place and now you can't move it open and I can uderstand that but not this antena struts getting stuck because they are not lubricated, I mean that would take more detailed explanation why it had to be made in such way that it would need lubricant to operate to sound believable<br /><br />vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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vogon13

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Google fretting.<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>
 
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vogon13

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This was noted during the Voyager encounters back in the seventies:<br /><br />At closest approach, the narrow angle cameras returned pictures of Jupiter almost devoid of detail. The atmosphere just doesn't have any visible detail at the scale the Galileo camera would have shot at on it's way in.<br /><br />And the low data rate back to earth would have severely limited the amount of featureless images sent back in any regard.<br /><br />BTW, wasn't the camera not working by that point too ?? Seems like something in the imaging electronics was fried by the radiation . . .<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>
 
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vogon13

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Did Galileo enter the Jupiterian atmosphere over the night side ??<br /><br />If so, the featureless pictures, not taken by the broken camera, and not sent back because of the low data rate from the stuck antenna would have been all black anyhow . . .<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>
 
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vogon13

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So, here is a bit perfect simulation of the last image that Galileo could have taken:<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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It's not perfect; you forgot radiation hits on the detectors. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />I'm sure you have experience with that in photographing your lab experiments. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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vandivx

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ok, done<br /><br />next time when I won't be able to open my umbrela due to it being stuck in hinges on account of fretting I will understand it LOL<br /><br />vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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3488

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Hi Vogon13,<br /><br />The jury is out on that. The circuitry to the camera was still operational up to the last.<br /><br />What is not known, is whether or not the CCD was blinded by the intense radiation<br />during that encounter. The camera was never intentionally operated ever again.<br /><br />There was radiation damge during the I33 / A34 encounter, but that caused<br />problems with a diode on the digital tape recorder (fixed by pushing current through<br />it & sort of repiring it by 'welding' restoring the conductive pathways through it.<br /><br />Yes the atmospheric entry by the Galileo orbiter was on the night side,<br />near the south pole.<br /><br />The star tracker returned the final 'visible' data of the entire mission & that was the bright star<br />Vega / Alpha Lyrae, only to enable pointing of the LGA at Earth during the dying hours,<br />up to the point that the star tracker was satuated by intense radiation & Vega<br />was lost in the noise.<br /><br />So Jupiter did not even figure in the final data.<br /><br />So yes, I think your simulated image is correct.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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3488

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Hi willpittenger,<br /><br />Sorry not to answer sooner.<br /><br />AFAIK, the MER whip like antennas did work whist the MERs were bouncing on the<br />surface before coming to rest.<br /><br />JPL, even knew that the craft were bouncing & also rolling because of the way the signal<br />faded & returned.<br /><br />Hope that helps.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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willpittenger

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Sorry not to answer sooner.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Don't worry. If you replied yesterday (Sunday Central US), I would have been unable to see your reply until today anyway. Power was out here for 11 hours. Does broadband help you access the internet with the power out?<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>AFAIK, the MER whip like antennas did work whist the MERs were bouncing on the<br />surface before coming to rest.<br /><br />JPL, even knew that the craft were bouncing & also rolling because of the way the signal<br />faded & returned.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Did Pathfinder have the same antenna system or was that added to Version 2.0 of the airbag system? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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3488

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AFAIK, yes. JPL were able to confirm Pathfinder's successful landing prior to petal opening.<br /><br />Unlike the MERs, Pathfinder did not tell JPL how the decent sequence went, <br />ie: Atmospheric entry, Parachute deployment, heat shield jettison, etc.<br /><br />That was programmed into the MERs after the loss of Mars Polar Lander, to help ascertain, that if <br />one or both of the MERs failed on landing, the point of failure would be known.<br /><br />As we know, fortunately, that requirement was not required in either landing, both were<br />hugely successful.<br /><br />Mars Pathfinder though did reveal bouncing AFAIK. JPL were able to announce <br />14 bounces as Mars Pathfinder came to rest in Ares Vallis.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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CalliArcale

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Does broadband help you access the internet with the power out? <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Only if you've got power for the computer and the modem (which is usually external), and assuming your service provider has power. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>
 
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3488

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Good point CalliArcale!!!! <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><br /><br />The Galileo Mission, I still get that strange feeling of 'what would have been' if that<br />damn HGA actually opened.<br /><br />I think we got spoilt by the Pioneers & Voyagers at Jupiter & beyond.<br /><br />But having said that, what a superb mission still though.<br /><br />I am grateful for Galileo & the chance to talk in person over the phone to <br />Bill O'Neill & Dr Eilene Theilig when they were mission managers.<br /><br />So Galileo remains a very special mission to me & that really sparked my confidence<br />it getting involved in campaigns to keep space exploration alive & meaningful (i.e New Horizons, <br />Mars Phoenix Lander & DAWN being successes <br />in campaigns I was personally involved). <br /><br />Below. The Galileo Spacecraft being relesed from the Space Shuttle Atlantis. Mission STS-34.<br /><br />Wednesday 18th October 1989.<br /><br />NASA/JPL/JSC.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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3488

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Below. The Galileo Spacecraft shortly after being relesed from the Space Shuttle Atlantis. <br />Mission STS-34. <br /><br />Wednesday 18th October 1989. <br /><br />NASA/JPL/JSC.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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3488

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Artists Impression of the Galileo Spacecraft burning up<br />in Jupiter's atmosphere on: <br />Sunday 21st September 2003, at the end of nearly 14 years since launch from<br />the Space Shuttle Atlantis on STS-34 & nearly eight years in Jupiter orbit<br />at the end of the mission.<br /><br />NASA/JPL.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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willpittenger

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I think the antenna portion of the image needs work. That antenna is fixed -- not the folding umbrella design that flew. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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