Why fails SETI? - Why the Fermi paradox?

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rod

Oct 22, 2019
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Truthseeker007 said "Pleadians". Q: Are these E.T. alien visitors coming from the Pleiades open star cluster in the constellation Taurus (near 400 light-years distance or so)? This open cluster is known as M45.
 
Dec 11, 2019
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I used to believe in this kind of stuff -- at least to some extent. But believe me, if the Milky Way galaxy were hopping with physical aliens like this, we'd know about it -- I mean in a public, confirmed way. It wouldn't be possible to keep it an "official secret" for so long either. I do still believe it's conceivable that all these "aliens" might, in fact, be discarnate entities of some sort. I know "discarnate entities" might seem at first glance even less plausible than "flesh and blood" aliens. But there is, in fact, a good deal of mediumistic evidence for such entities. And they are, by nature, not capable of being "outed" in any public way like "real" (physical) aliens would be. Strange as it might seem. And since such entities can appear in any form they please, that would account for their great variety. In fact, Jacques Vallee has proposed just such a theory. This also accords with my "hallucination" theory since the appearance of such entities does not occur through the physical senses but by direct impression on the mind....
Hey to each their own. It really don't matter what any of us believe. Their is tons of information on it. Have you ever heard of Laura Eisenhower the great granddaughter of President Eisenhower?I recommend checking out some of her vids and information. Its really not a secret but nobody such as the president is going to come out and announce it.
 
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Jan 7, 2020
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Well, they seem to ignore the interstellar dust cloud we are in and that would have definitely affected any light/radio/whatever waves. So, we may not have good reception until we are out of it. A better question is why the cloud is ignored and why we still keep using Hubble measurements/theories (the scientist that did this in the 1920's while the could was discovered in the 70's) that acted as if space were a perfect vacuum. We can not know how fast things are spreading apart or anything because the light would have been affected that we use to check. I think this dust could presents a lot of issues that we are ignoring, especially sending and receiving signals. https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24153-solar-system-caught-in-an-interstellar-tempest/.
 
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Dec 11, 2019
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Well, they seem to ignore the interstellar dust cloud we are in and that would have definitely affected any light/radio/whatever waves. So, we may not have good reception until we are out of it. A better question is why the cloud is ignored and why we still keep using Hubble measurements/theories (the scientist that did this in the 1920's while the could was discovered in the 70's) that acted as if space were a perfect vacuum. We can not know how fast things are spreading apart or anything because the light would have been affected that we use to check. I think this dust could presents a lot of issues that we are ignoring, especially sending and receiving signals. https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24153-solar-system-caught-in-an-interstellar-tempest/.
Very good questions and great points.
 

Vaz

Jan 5, 2020
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The problem with 'general' broadcasts, much as our television and radio wave signals are being sent into spa've, they do indeed get sent out in a circular orbit of sorts, away from our planet, but the problem with that, is the farther out they get, the weaker and fainter it is to, detect them, as thwit signals get fpainter and fainter in ststrength that they inevitably end up merging into the noise of the cosmic background radiation, so unless someone was really listening hard or someone already knew there was a broadcasted signal in their current region of space, those signals will never be heard.

And with something like a narrow beam transmission, that poses much the same problem, if someone already knows that there's a signal and turning their instruments to pick it up. It would be like an astronaut onboard a spaceship floating, a billion kilometers outside of a star system (Fomalhaut for example). Without an exact location of where the message that astronaut is beaming from, you'd never receive it because there's too much space between you and the astronaut to pin point the space ship's exact location.
You have to remember that if a narrow beam transmission is off by even a fraction of a degree from your intended target (in this case, Earth), your message would bypass Earth completely and never be intercepted due to the distance between Fomalhaut and Earth.
 
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Dec 11, 2019
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The problem with 'general' broadcasts, much as our television and radio wave signals are being sent into spa've, they do indeed get sent out in a circular orbit of sorts, away from our planet, but the problem with that, is the farther out they get, the weaker and fainter it is to, detect them, as thwit signals get fpainter and fainter in ststrength that they inevitably end up merging into the noise of the cosmic background radiation, so unless someone was really listening hard or someone already knew there was a broadcasted signal in their current region of space, those signals will never be heard.

And with something like a narrow beam transmission, that poses much the same problem, if someone already knows that there's a signal and turning their instruments to pick it up. It would be like an astronaut onboard a spaceship floating, a billion kilometers outside of a star system (Fomalhaut for example). Without an exact location of where the message that astronaut is beaming from, you'd never receive it because there's too much space between you and the astronaut to pin point the space ship's exact location.
You have to remember that if a narrow beam transmission is off by even a fraction of a degree from your intended target (in this case, Earth), your message would bypass Earth completely and never be intercepted due to the distance between Fomalhaut and Earth.
I agree which is why I think SETI should try something different because they are just wasting time and money. It's kind of like sending a tree a message and expecting it to respond back.lol! Not to mention the ET's already found us a long time ago. lol!
 
Nov 16, 2019
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I didn't read any posts (TLDNR) but obviously SETI is failing because it's like looking at all of the earth through a pinhole really close-up. Still gotta keep trying and keep expanding that pinhole.
 
Jan 6, 2020
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It is no good going to the river just wanting to catch a fish; you have to take a net as well. ~ Chinese Proverb
 
Jan 6, 2020
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It is no good going to the river just wanting to catch a fish; you have to take a net as well. ~ Chinese Proverb
If we question whether or not there is intelligent life somewhere else in the Galaxy (outside of our Galaxy would be too far to search) then wondering about it will never provide an answer. We must cast a net ( Allen Telescope Array, Arecibo, Laser SETI, etc). We still may not find an answer, but without the net, we definitely won’t.
 
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Nov 16, 2019
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It is no good going to the river just wanting to catch a fish; you have to take a net as well. ~ Chinese Proverb

If we question whether or not there is intelligent life somewhere else in the Galaxy (outside of our Galaxy would be too far to search) then wondering about it will never provide an answer. We must cast a net ( Allen Telescope Array, Arecibo, Laser SETI, etc). We still may not find an answer, but without the net, we definitely won’t.
Your proverb was pretty literal then
 
Jan 10, 2020
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If we are indeed totally alone among the trillions of planets and stars in the Universe (we have no idea how likely abiogenesis is), all our attempts to detect life will seem like failure.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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If we are indeed totally alone among the trillions of planets and stars in the Universe (we have no idea how likely abiogenesis is), all our attempts to detect life will seem like failure.
Since the only evidence we have is that our solar system has life, that's 1 for 1 of a sample size. It would be like winning the super galactic mega lottery if there's no other intelligent life out there.
 
Jan 13, 2020
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Well I am no scientist but even for me it is obvious why SETI in more than 50 years did not detect any intelligent radio signal and why Fermi was asking “Where is anybody”?

I think they were and they still are simply looking in the wrong direction. Why would any advanced intelligent civilization use radio waves or light waves for their communication? Only because our scientists think, it is the fastest way of communication? Oh come on, 300 years ago we used smoke signals, 200 years ago we used Morse codes and the electric telegraph, since 100 years we use radio waves. An intelligent civilization might be thousands or even millions of years ahead of us and our scientists really think they use radio waves?

Radio waves are fast, but even a radio signal needs about 15-25 minutes to reach Mars, 70-80 minutes to reach Saturn and approx. 4 hours to reach Pluto. And that’s the time it needs for any communication only within our solar system, a radio message to our closest star Alpha Centauri would take already more than 4 years.

Now imagine an interstellar travelling spaceship which is in trouble and needs urgent help. They are at one end of our galaxy and their home planet is located at the other end of the galaxy. Now would they send a radio message like “Houston, we have a problem” they would have to wait around 200,000 years for an answer. Not exactly very efficient and helpful right?

So what kind of communication might they use? Well, the only possible answer is: something which is instant, something we yet have to discover and therefore we are still not able to detect.

Maybe in some thousand years the human brain will evolve so far that we are capable of Telepathy which would be an instant form of communication. A communication form based on Quantum mechanics, where two particles interact instantaneously regardless how far they are apart might be another way of an instant communication. But I guess they would use something we still can´t even imagine.

Well forgive me if my thoughts sound naive or even stupid, but as I mentioned, I am no scientist and I personally think projects like SETI and Breakthrough Listen simply take the wrong approach to detect intelligent life which for sure must be anywhere out there.
Fermi's paradox isn't a paradox. It just appears to be one, on the surface. Enter the vastness of our universe, and that paradox melts away.

SETI is, essentially, confined to searching for radio signals originating from species only in our own Galaxy. First, we have to take into account that any species that achieves radio communication may not last very long. So unless the timing of our existence is fortunate enough to coincide, within 100,000 years, with the existence of one such civilization, we will never, not ever, detect their radio waves. Over a timeline of 13 billion years, that's a "big ask". SETI is not searching for a needle in a haystack. They are searching for a possibly short-lived isotope in a pile of trillions of atoms.

Even if they don't find it after an exhaustive search, they could not rule out that it ever was there. In fact, it may be much more surprising to find many such short-lived isotopes than it would be to find none.
 
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Jan 13, 2020
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agree which is why I think SETI should try something different because they are just wasting time and money.
"Something different"

For example ...?

If you have a way that other civilizations might appear to us that is faster than the speed of light, everyone would love to hear it!
 
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If Einstein could be wrong then what theory can anyone put 100% belief into.
That's not how it works. Evidence-based determinations are "bets", not "unshakable faith". MIGHT you fall up, if you jump off of your roof? Sure, you might. Given the mountain of evidence that you will fall down and injure yourself, the smart bet is not to try it. ;)
 
Jan 13, 2020
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I used to believe in this kind of stuff -- at least to some extent. But believe me, if the Milky Way galaxy were hopping with physical aliens like this, we'd know about it -- I mean in a public, confirmed way.
Within the last 100,000 years, there may be/may have been literally millions of planets teeming with life in the milky way, and not one has sent a radio signal in our direction.

The Earth is 4.5 billion years old. We have managed to send out radio signals for about 100 years.

And there you have it.
 
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The biggest problem with the extraterrestrial spaceship theory of UFO's is this. Since they've been spotted in various forms for some three-quarters of a century now, still there's been no official contact.
Does it seem odd, at first glance, that we only have record of such sightings from very recent history? It should. 500 years ago, when we saw strange things in the sky, we called them "flaming chariots" and "dragons" and "warrior spirits". Now that we have the benefit of knowing that there are probably trillions of planets in our Galaxy alone, we see "alien spaceships".

As DeGrasse-Tyson says: "Try to remember what the 'U' stands for in 'UFO'."
 
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Dec 11, 2019
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"Something different"

For example ...?

If you have a way that other civilizations might appear to us that is faster than the speed of light, everyone would love to hear it!
Well for one just look out at the night sky. Their are so many UFO's being reported anymore you are bound to see one. I don't think they are all our military or just satellites or as the Air Force said weather balloons. :D

Who knows maybe many of the aliens are under the Vatican.:D That is the first place I would look. And then there is Dulce,New Mexico where many of the natives say they live underground. I don't know how do 400,000 people go missing from the earth every year?
 
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Within the last 100,000 years, there may be/may have been literally millions of planets teeming with life in the milky way, and not one has sent a radio signal in our direction.

The Earth is 4.5 billion years old. We have managed to send out radio signals for about 100 years.

And there you have it.
But we do have lost history so how do we know what went on in the past? Even ancient batteries were found in Iraq. And you have the stories of Atlantis and Lemuria. I think what has happened is our true history has been either lost on purpose or lost by accident. Or destroyed by entities that didn't want us knowing our true history so they can control us better. For all we know we lived on Mars at one time and a big catastrophe happened and we came here. Who knows but we can try to put the puzzle back together.
 
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Does it seem odd, at first glance, that we only have record of such sightings from very recent history? It should. 500 years ago, when we saw strange things in the sky, we called them "flaming chariots" and "dragons" and "warrior spirits". Now that we have the benefit of knowing that there are probably trillions of planets in our Galaxy alone, we see "alien spaceships".

As DeGrasse-Tyson says: "Try to remember what the 'U' stands for in 'UFO'."
Even the god of the Old Testament flew around in a flaming chariot. It just makes me think the ancient astronaut theory is on to something. And even read the old Hindu texts where it explains a war in the sky. Maybe these ancient gods that people worship were living breathing extraterrestrials?
 
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Jan 13, 2020
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Well for one just look out at the night sky. Their are so many UFO's being reported anymore you are bound to see one. I don't think they are all our military or just satellites or as the Air Force said weather balloons. :D

Who knows maybe many of the aliens are under the Vatican.:D That is the first place I would look. And then there is Dulce,New Mexico where many of the natives say they live underground. I don't know how do 400,000 people go missing from the earth every year?
Okay, but all that will be accomplished is to have seen unidentified things.
 
Jan 13, 2020
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But we do have lost history so how do we know what went on in the past? Even ancient batteries were found in Iraq. And you have the stories of Atlantis and Lemuria. I think what has happened is our true history has been either lost on purpose or lost by accident. Or destroyed by entities that didn't want us knowing our true history so they can control us better. For all we know we lived on Mars at one time and a big catastrophe happened and we came here. Who knows but we can try to put the puzzle back together.
Why the need for this mystery? What needs to be explained, that cannot be explained by other methods?
 
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Even the god of the Old Testament flew around in a flaming chariot.
Naturally, as it was the fastest vehicle at the time. If something is soaring across the sky, the ancient observer compares it to what he knows. He cannot compare it to that which he does not know. Would he compare such a thing to a snail, or a walking man? No, it is fast, so it must be compared to something fast.
 
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