Would Saturn be visible from Titan's surface

[willpittenger]

Some images (some of them SciFi) have shown Saturn above Titan's horizon. However, since Voyager could not see into Titan (in visible light), would we be able to see out (assuming we were in a space suit and using only the naked eye)? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

Nothing contrary to suggest it is not possible.

 

[dragon04]

Saturn would not only be visible from Titan, but also very prominent in its sky.<br /><br />Remember, we can see down to Titan's surface accurately enough to show those utterly awesome pictures of liquid bodies that Cassini images have shown us.<br /><br />We see areas of cloud and clarity on Titan. The view of Saturn from there must be breathtaking.<br /><br />Granted, we have the advantage of viewing the surface of Titan in ways other than the purely visible spectrum, but I can imagine the Titanian sky full of Saturn even through the atmospheric haze.<br /><br />Owing to the drastically reduced gravity of Titan as compared to here on Earth, I can imagine high altitude "sightseeing tours" to the outer reaches of Titan's atmosphere.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

I don't believe those images are in visible light. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

I just recently finished Ben Bova's "Titan". It was excellant, & the science in it was very well researched. In the story an astronaut/stuntman goes down to the surface of Titan to repair a malfunctioning robotic probe. In this part of the book Ben Bova attempts a decription of how Saturn would look. He says it would be only slightly visable through the extremely thick haze. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Unfortunately, most of the Hubble images of Titan are either very narrow bandwidth or infrared. With Cassini images, you might be looking at Radar results. Not all of them are labeled as such. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

Hugo Award-winning editor, author, scientist, and journalist, Ben Bova is a modern master of near-future science fiction and a passionate advocate of manned space exploration. For more than a decade, Bova has been chronicling humanity’s struggles to colonize our solar system in a series of interconnected novels known as “The Grand Tour.â€<br /><br />Now, with TITAN (A Tor Hardcover; $24.95; March 2 I am not sure.He is a science fiction writer.<br />

 

[portercc]

I've got to agree with MeteorWayne...you are viewing filtered images. I don't believe you would see Saturn through the smog. Sorry about that sci-fi readers.

 

[qso1]

The images of lakes etc. that were taken by Cassini were not taken at visible wavelengths. Titans atmosphere is basically a nearly opaque orangish haze blanketing the entire planet. It may not be possible to see Saturn from Titans surface at all.<br /><br />OTOH, there may be periods where the haze gets thin enough to see Saturn a little. I did such an image for my current graphic novel. In it, one of the story characters is immersed in a simulator that displays an image of the Titan surface provided by a Titan probe in which Starun can be seen. The rings are nearly edge on because the date I chose they just happen to be that way according to Starry Night.<br /><br />The darkest band in Saturns atmosphere is the ring shadow. Saturns apparent size in the sky is determined by its diameter and distance from Titan and the 60 degree POV I usually use in Lightwave. The Saturn model is scaled to full size and parked at its actual distance from Titan. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Well if you can see through the atmosphere at some specific wavelength, why not?<br /><br />Who says alien life can't have tunable wavelength filters, much as we have flexible lenses for focus. It certainly would increase the likelyhood of your genes getting passed on <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[heyscottie]

Any hypothesized alien life perhaps WOULD have the ability to see through the smog with some low frequency "eyeball".<br /><br />But alas for humans.

 

[mithridates]

Aren't people theoretically supposed to be able to fly on Titan by just strapping on a pair of wings and flapping? If so it likely wouldn't be all that hard to find a way to get above a lot of the fog. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>----- </p><p>http://mithridates.blogspot.com</p> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

The higher you go, the more the pressure drops. As it dropped, you must move faster to remain supported by just air. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[qso1]

crazyeddie:<br />What a pity that many of the lovely views imagined by the famous artist Chesley Bonestell half a century ago will never come to pass.<br /><br />Me:<br />That would be quite the view indeed. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[brellis]

thanks for the visual treat, all - the images on this thread look great!<br /><br />I wonder how far we are from designing little 'bots that can survive longterm in Titan's cold, use the methane for energy and scan the skies with "eyes" designed to see through the haze as they explore the terrain. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[qso1]

Thanks, glad you liked my image.<br /><br />I think such bots could be built within the next decade but then you have another decade from the time they are launched till arrival at Titan. I wouldn't be surprised if JPL is seriously looking into unmanned landing missions now that they have a really good first look at Titan. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Like your image, for the poor bloke it might be a little chilly, wearing only t-shirt & shorts, not<br />to mention no oxygen to breathe. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />IIRC the original plan for Huygens was to descend to Titan on the Saturn facing hemisphere, <br />imaging Saturn above Titan's horizon,<br /> through much of the descent, to check for opaqueness.<br /><br />But because of the change of mission design due to the 'doppler' problem, Huygens landing<br />site ended up on Titan's farside instead.<br /><br />Andrew Brown.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

Ah but he is not actually on Titan...notice he casts no shadow. He is in my equivalent of a holodeck where unmanned immersable experiences are possible. In this case, the visual experience without the environmental experience.<br /><br />At some 300 below zero on the surface...if that poor guy were on Titan, he shatter like glass or be a frozen bloke of ice. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[pyoko]

I was given the impression that the 'original' image (the one with the orange haze and scattered rocks) was supposed to be 'near true colour'. This means that the sky, at best, would look like an orange haze. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color:#ff9900" class="Apple-style-span">-pyoko</span> <span style="color:#333333" class="Apple-style-span">the</span> <span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span">duck </span></p><p><span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="color:#808080;font-style:italic" class="Apple-style-span">It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.</span></span></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

As I recall, the image showing the boulders is near true color and the atmosphere is similar in color to what it appears outside the atmosphere (From orbit). The difference being perspective. Like looking from the ground here on earth at a light blue sky and seeing the earth from space with a nearly clear sky except when you look at the earths limb and see a bluish haze.<br /><br />The image I did with Saturn in the view, I used a paint program color picker on the Huygens image from Titans surface to get an approximation of the color as viewed at the surface. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[brellis]

<font color="yellow">At some 300 below zero on the surface...if that poor guy were on Titan, he shatter like glass or be a frozen bloke of ice.</font> I think my ex-wife came from Titan <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[qso1]

I know mine did LOL! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

During descent Huygens was able to see for several 100 kim, so the lower atmosphere is quite clear. The hills should be sharp (although lacking in contrast because of the low light levels and the diffuse light).<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[hansolo0]

Here are some more pics of Saturn etc in titan sky (scroll down)<br /><br />http://www.titanexploration.com/<br /><br />

 

[qso1]

I've seen images of the ground taken by Huygens as it was descending but I haven't seen any images of the descent where the camera was looking towards the horizon. In the image I posted, I accounted for the atmosphere being relatively clear but with haze present due to varying atmospheric conditions thought to occur on Titan. Conditions such as ethane rains ect.<br /><br />How accurate is my image or any conceptual image for that matter? That will have to wait till we get some ground images looking off towards moutain ranges. The current ground image does not show much of anything beyond the rocks and surface near the lander.<br /><br />Remember when scientists were saying mars atmosphere would be dark blue in appearance? Then Viking showed it to be bright pinkish due to suspended fine dust particles. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>