a challenge for the real Sci-Fi buffs

[steampower]

so I was argueing with my friend about space battles and good/bad points, and we came round to trying to compare the type of battles in space, and we came to realise that in every case we could think of ALL space battles are machine vs machine, either starships or deathstars or space stations with guns etc, what you never seem to see in big budget films is a space battle with troops vs troops, now shoot me with a laser if I am wrong, but at the tech level depicted in most films wouldn`t it be possible that it would be easier to board a starship than destroy or disable it and drag into a hangar?, and wouldn`t it be more (cinematicaly) cool to have space troopers boarding starships?.<br /><br />we only came up with two movies that had assault groups attempting to board spacecraft and one of those isn`t realy science fiction, the Birdmen in Flash Gordon board the rocket ship Ajax (thats the best Sci-Fi space assault we could think of) and the US space marines attack and board the space station in James Bonds MoonRaker, does anyone else think that theres a big hole here in the Sci Fi WOW! factor horizon?, big starships are OK, but even Lucas Never had a boarding action in his films (and he managed to cram just about everything else in), just imagine 600 Imperial troopers attempting to board General Grevious`s destroyer as a diversion while Obe Wan and Anakin snuck in Via a service hatch under the hull, that would have (imo) made a much more exciting scene than the silly spaceship attack they did show, anyone here think likewise?, care to comment on large spaceborn assaults against starships?, and can anyone think of any we missed? out of all the films ever made, 2 doesn`t seem like a good hit rate.<br /><br />steampower.

 

[nearearthobjective]

There was a scene almost exactly like you describe in the clone wars series. After their ship was disabled, a large group of clone-troopers led by a Jedi board and capture one of the enemy ships. This takes place during that big battle above Coursucant shown as the opening scene of Sith. <br /> The clone-troopers use their Boba-Fett style jetpacks to cross the gap, but the Jedi just jumps! (While wearing a spacesuit).<br /><br />I don't think the idea is very realistic though. Even in modern surface ship battles boarding is not much of a consideration.<br /><br />Course, if we had the jet-packs.........<br /><br />

 

[steampower]

curses, I just watched that through and didn`t see it, will have to run it through again, but I meant as a major action, not just a incidental bit gone in the blink of an eye but a full on fight, have you seen the climatic fight in Moonraker?, thats the sort of thing we where thinking of, <go`s back to running ROTS start sequence through again><br /><br />steampower.

 

[summoner]

I'd say it's fairly common in scifi books. I'd guess the movie probably think that'd it look too much like regular grunt infantryman. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> <br /><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width:271px;background-color:#FFF;border:1pxsolid#999"><tr><td colspan="2"><div style="height:35px"><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/htmlSticker1/language/www/US/MT/Three_Forks.gif" alt="" height="35" width="271" style="border:0px" /></div>

 

[summoner]

One other point is that it's be really tough to get enough bodies onboard a really large ship. A US carrier has about 5000 people on board. Imagine trying to board through a relatively small hole or chokepoint. You'd be picked off one by one. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> <br /><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width:271px;background-color:#FFF;border:1pxsolid#999"><tr><td colspan="2"><div style="height:35px"><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/htmlSticker1/language/www/US/MT/Three_Forks.gif" alt="" height="35" width="271" style="border:0px" /></div>

 

[yevaud]

Yeah, but let's be real.<br /><br />Teleportation is probably not possible. And matching velocities with another ship in motion is a very wiggy affair indeed. And they can defend themselves, unless they're a hulk.<br /><br />However, fixed locations such as orbital stations and colonies in orbit are fair game. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[steampower]

I probably do miss several things, I ran the opening sequence with the space battle right up to the Jedi getting onto the flagship and I STILL can`t see any Jedi with troopers jumping onto another ship, it`s either all of two frames long OR it isn`t in the UK release CD OR I need to shoot my optician, as for the other films..<br /><br />Starship Troopers could as well be Saving Private Ryan, it wasn`t in space, there have been ground battles in Sci-Fi like the Clone Wars , ground battles don`t count, I was on about taking a spaceborn vessel or structure over.<br /><br />Borg isn`t a boarding action, they just pop up and shoot/grab people, like the old saying, half the excitement is getting there, Borg don`t actualy board a starship, they just sort of walk up and wander off again, not cinematicaly exciting once you have seen em do it once, in fact I find Star Treck terminaly annoying, for all the good their shields are they might as well paste brown paper on the hull, rather like the affable blond, two shots and they`re anybodys.<br /><br />I don`t know about Cylons since all I have is the new pilot episode on CD, but given the budget and the cast of six I should think that was more a covert action than a boarding operation, then again not having seen it (I don`t have SKY and I live in a part of the UK where they still burn you for using electric light) , I am not qualified to say.<br /><br />matching velocities is a cinematic plot or even a detail, like the opening to revenge of the Sith, starships doing 5mph and all jammed in a small volume of space cheek by jowl is not how it would probably be in real life, but in a cinematic sequence where you wanted a boarding action thats how it would be, it seems logical that you would get at the opposition every way possible to subdue them (imo), including assault groups, naturaly, in real life even lowley aircraft tend to shoot down opponents when they are ten or twenty miles away, or if the local AWACS spots em maybe even from over

 

[steampower]

because EVERYBODY, be it tribbles or some stone age throwbacks on an ice planet, or a malfunctioning alien space probe, can defeat or bypass the shields in 1 or max 2 shots, whats the point of carrying all that equipment and technology when it doesn`t actualy accomplish anything?, 20th century body armour is more use than an Enterprise "shield", at least it takes more than 2 hits and keeps on working, the problem is it isn`t a shield at all, at the best it`s a puny stopgap thats buys time for the captain to say "condition red" in a macho manner right before the next hit kills the "shield" and blows up a console on the bridge.<br /><br />I mean, even SHUTTLES have managed to disable the shield, wot?, shuttles with 90terrawatt ion beam generators?, and how come EVERY time they get in a potentialy hostile situation they don`t try to activate the shields until they get shot at?, want to know why?, cos they know they are NO BLUDDY GOOD!, they would rather save the power to return fire or run away, I bet captains only say "shields up" cos it`s in the starfleet manual somewhere, they never show the bit where they continue "for all the bloody good they will do us!", in fact in many situations the Enterprise seems to do just as well without the shields as with em.<br /><br />thats only one of my peeves with Startreck, I won`t go into the idiocy of fitting a starship with an entertainment system that almost destroys it every third episode, whats with that?, if I was captain I would have the holodecks ripped out and replaced with a few sports facilities and libraries, I mean, they are on a soddin starship, and rather than admire the universe flow by from a comfy chair in 10 forward or building up relationships with their crewmates they play at being Philip Marlow in a malfunctioning video game? sheesh!.<br /><br />steampower.

 

[strandedonearth]

Actually, the entire Star Wars (A New Hope) saga started with a boarding action. Granted, the boarded ship was disabled and tractored into the hangar bay of a Star Destroyer, but then a hatch was breached and it was boarded by stormtroopers, regular army troopers, and Darth Vader, in order to capture Princess Leia.

 

[steampower]

yes, but it didn`t LOOK like a boarding action, it was just a fight in a corridor, could have been down the local interstellar supermarket for all we know <br /><br />steampower.

 

[joedimaster]

The clone wars scene that someone mentioned is from the Clone Wars cartoon series, not from the clone wars action in Revenge of the Sith. So don't kill yourself watching the opening scene of the movie eighty thousand times (though that might be fun anyway).

 

[Saiph]

Babylon 5 has some combat boarding scenes, though it is on the station, not another ship.<br /><br />Anyway, I'd say it's always easier to just destroy your target, than attempt to caputure it. Look at modern warfare. If we really wanted to get combantants out of a building, the easiest method is just to stick some C4 around the base, and blow it up. Problem with that is collatoral damage and casualties are considered unacceptable.<br /><br />Another thing to consider is how nasty you can booby trap a spacecraft. My favorite idea is small ball bearings in the air inlets (which are highly pressurized) for the airlock. With some jury rigging, that's like a bunch of small AP mines in there.<br /><br />Throw in a large crew, and the standard resistance capable is a pretty nasty deturant. I've never heard of anybody boarding battleships or destroyers afterall. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p align="center"><font color="#c0c0c0"><br /></font></p><p align="center"><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">----</font></em></font><font color="#666699">SaiphMOD@gmail.com </font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">-------------------</font></em></font></p><p><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">"This is my Timey Wimey Detector.  Goes "bing" when there's stuff.  It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually.  I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- </font></em></font><font size="1" color="#999999">The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[tomnackid]

Even regular old "wet navy" battles these days are fought over the horizon. I imagine real space battles will be fought from distances where the enemy would only appear as points of light if at all. The days of battleships sidling up to each other and blasting away ended with the invention of the aircraft carrier and the cruise missile!

 

[nag622]

But isn't that part of what makes a sci fi movie a sci fi movie? It almost by definition has to have some type of a dog fight in space where a million fighters take on a mothership etc. <br /><br />Or blindingly fast manuevers in a one on one dog fight. To a certain degree, this scenerio would be comparible, as one ace is trying to match wits with his enemy.<br /><br />

 

[lampblack]

On Star Trek DS9, there was a bang-up attempted boarding of the space station during the start of the Dominion War (or was it the fight with the Klingons? Memories are fuzzy).<br /><br />Anyhow... they had the station's defense system responding with photon torpedo cannons... and when the shields finally failed, there were phaser fights happening on the promenade. It was pretty cool.<br /><br />Maybe somebody else can recall precisely who the bad guys were?<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[nova_explored]

didn't they board the ship princess leia was on in the first STAR WARS?<br /><br />i remember the big opening scene with darth vader and the storm trooper laser fights with the ships troops and the storm troopers cutting through the hull while the men stood and waited for the onslaught and ensuing battle.<br /><br />is that the kind of battle you are talking about? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[darth_elmo]

I don't think so. The pilot episode put the kibosh on that idea. Every one of Caprica's new-generation, computer-automated/assisted Vipers was disabled by a back-door into their programming put there by a Cylon mole and exploited by the Cylon extermination fleet.