A glider mission?

[absolutezero]

Every once in awhile you will hear talk about a glider mission or ballon mission to Mars, or I even saw someone mention it for Venus. Titan would also be an excellent place to launch a ballon probe or glider probe; however I was looking at JPL's future and proposed mission page and there isn't even a glider probe mentioned on there!<br /><br />Is there reasons why this type of mission is not being explored very much? Is there technical difficulities or lack of ROI with this type of probe?

 

[spacefire]

I'd like to see an atmosphere sample return mission...<br />just a quick dip scoop and rocket out. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[mikejz]

I would much rather see a glider mission to Venus along with a long-deration balloon.

 

[absolutezero]

Question is though why hasn't this been proposed? Money can't be the sole issue? So if NASA say launched a balloon probe to Venus or Titan, would there not be as much science gained from a lander? Or simply the technical challenges more to do this type of craft then a lander? I guess if you did a ballon of some sort you would probably have less control over it then your rover on the surface.

 

[nacnud]

A discovery class glider mission has been proposed for mars as well as some concepts for Venus etc, but I don't think there have been any planned discovery missions to venus for which a glider could compete for.<br /><br />

 

[j05h]

The Planetary Society had a late-80's balloon for Mars concept. It was solar heated, decends to the surface at night to drag a heavily instrumented "snake" along the surface.<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

There are four issues with gliders as I understand. First is the mission duration - minutes and most , second is the fact - apart from low altitude oblique imagery - they can do little a satellite can't do better, third is the very limited payload, and fourth is the data transmission problem- the probe will probably be destroyed on impact to must transmit everything live. The same limitations apply to avrying degrees to pwoered aircraft as well.<br /><br />Balloons: I guess there is a feeling that a randomly moving rover like a balloon is inferior to a controlled one like a wheel rover. But balloon are atractive, especially in rugged terrain and very useful for atmospheric studies too. And they last much longer than heavier than air aircraft. The only active balloon project is the Archimedes mission being developed by the German Mars Society. They have got it as far as inflation tests in a zero G aircraft.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[mikejz]

I would argue that the conditions on Venus probably entail significant updrafts, and if you could design the intelligence into a glider for a Venus mission, it might be able to stay airborne for a very long time.

 

[JonClarke]

I was thinking specifically of Mars. I realise I should have been more clear when I wrote, my apologies.<br /><br />I know some people at Ames have been looking at gliders on Venus. You can make almost anything fly in that atmosphere.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">here are four issues with gliders as I understand...</font>/i><br /><br />I would add the difficulty of testing such a vehicle before launch. The atmospheric pressures are dramatically different on Earth and Mars. Simulations and wind tunnel tests can only take you so far. I think the probability of failure would be too high compared with the additional science that could be returned.</i>

 

[j05h]

along with earth-side testing, there is the issue of Mars' extremely variable air pressure. It changes something like 50-100% depending on season. <br /><br />OT, again, but I think some kind of balloon (solar-heated, Montgolfier, etc) makes a lot more sense. I don't understand why an undirected balloon is such an issue, the unit gives you close-up global coverage (and possibly direct spectra). There are a couple of ways to make a balloon fly straight, too, like that company that wanted to put a robotic kite under the gondola.<br /><br />josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[rasun]

An update on the Archimedes Mars balloon probe of the Mars Society of Germany, and the data relaying orbiter, made largely by the Amateur Satellite organization of Germany.<br /><br />

 

[3488]

Thanks rasun,<br /><br />I wish them the very best of luck. This looks as though it could really work well.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[mi2again]

Spacefire: <br />what does your signature mean? Is it an unsuccessful attempt at humor based on an misinformation about NASA

 

[alokmohan]

glider mission What it is?

 

[gunsandrockets]

Earlier this year during the Jet Propulsion Laboratory open house we saw some early work on two different balloon concepts; one was a free-floating balloon for a Venus mission, and the other was a powered blimp for a Titan mission.

 

[h2ouniverse]

Balloons are considered for Titan, both by NASA (Titan Explorer) and ESA (TandEM).<br /><br />Regards

 

[3488]

IIRC about the Titan Explorer, a balloon will land in several different places, with<br />the gondola being a fully intrumented lander. When the balloon runs out of juice, the balloon<br />is jetissoned & the lander can operate from a fixed location afterwards.<br /><br />Is the Titan part of TandEM similar?<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[h2ouniverse]

Not defined yet<br /><br />Regards.