A Swiss Bank Is Set to Open Its Secret Files

Smersh · Feb 19, 2009

Story from the New York Times In the hush-hush world of Swiss banking, the unthinkable is happening: secrets are spilling into the open.  UBS, the largest bank in Switzerland, agreed on Wednesday to divulge the names of well-heeled Americans whom the authorities suspect of using offshore accounts at the bank to evade taxes. The bank admitted conspiring to defraud the Internal Revenue Service and agreed to pay $780 million to settle a sweeping federal investigation into its activities.  It is unclear how many of its clients’ names UBS will divulge. Federal prosecutors have been examining about 19,000 accounts at the bank, but UBS ultimately may disclose the identities of only a few hundred customers. But to some, turning over any names at all heralds the end of the secret Swiss bank account, whose traditions date to the Middle Ages. Full story here.Well at least I know my name won't be on there (I prefer the Cayman Isles personally as they've got nice beaches there for when I visit my money. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" /> )   I wonder whose faces it will be that have egg on them though?   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <h1 style="margin:0pt;font-size:12px">----------------------------------------------------- </h1>Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea." Churchill: "Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."Website / forums </div>

Kerberos · Feb 19, 2009

Forget the CIA or the SIS, it's the IRS that you must fear. There is nowhere in the world you can hide from it. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-surprised.gif" border="0" alt="Surprised" title="Surprised" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> LSD, 100 micrograms I.M. </div>

bearack · Feb 19, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Story from the New York Times In the hush-hush world of Swiss banking, the unthinkable is happening: secrets are spilling into the open. UBS, the largest bank in Switzerland, agreed on Wednesday to divulge the names of well-heeled Americans whom the authorities suspect of using offshore accounts at the bank to evade taxes. The bank admitted conspiring to defraud the Internal Revenue Service and agreed to pay $780 million to settle a sweeping federal investigation into its activities. It is unclear how many of its clients’ names UBS will divulge. Federal prosecutors have been examining about 19,000 accounts at the bank, but UBS ultimately may disclose the identities of only a few hundred customers.But to some, turning over any names at all heralds the end of the secret Swiss bank account, whose traditions date to the Middle Ages. Full story here.Well at least I know my name won't be on there (I prefer the Cayman Isles personally as they've got nice beaches there for when I visit my money.  )   I wonder whose faces it will be that have egg on them though?   Posted by Smersh</DIV> Sweet.  10 more lawsuites like this and we can pay back the stimulus package.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <img id="06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/14/06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /> </div>

dragon04 · Feb 19, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Story from the New York Times In the hush-hush world of Swiss banking, the unthinkable is happening: secrets are spilling into the open. UBS, the largest bank in Switzerland, agreed on Wednesday to divulge the names of well-heeled Americans whom the authorities suspect of using offshore accounts at the bank to evade taxes. The bank admitted conspiring to defraud the Internal Revenue Service and agreed to pay $780 million to settle a sweeping federal investigation into its activities. It is unclear how many of its clients’ names UBS will divulge. Federal prosecutors have been examining about 19,000 accounts at the bank, but UBS ultimately may disclose the identities of only a few hundred customers.But to some, turning over any names at all heralds the end of the secret Swiss bank account, whose traditions date to the Middle Ages. Full story here.Well at least I know my name won't be on there (I prefer the Cayman Isles personally as they've got nice beaches there for when I visit my money.  )   I wonder whose faces it will be that have egg on them though?   Posted by Smersh</DIV>UBS will disclose as many names as they feel neccessary to not be disallowed to do business with American Money. They're not exactly in a position of strength right now.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!". </div>

10_stone_5 · Feb 19, 2009

"UBS ... divulge the names of well-heeled Americans whom the authorities suspect of using offshore accounts at the bank to evade taxes ... I wonder whose faces it will be that have egg on them though?"---------------How 'bout Jimmy Hoffa -- or maybe Al Capone ?!Definately ... Marc Rich !   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

docm · Feb 19, 2009

And how many drug trafficers who are in US banking...like more than one of Clinton's buddies. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

10_stone_5 · Feb 19, 2009

WSJ ---"IRS targets...as many as 52,000 U.S. customers hid their UBS accounts..."   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

jim48 · Feb 19, 2009

Truthfully I'm more interested in how much Nazi money remains frozen there, and who should it go to? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

BoJangles · Feb 19, 2009

It would only be the dumb and less rich that would have accounts set up in their own name. Most would be in complicated Swiss trusts and companies, with barer shares.Basically you'll only see the small fries, like an entertainer that has a couple of mill stashed away that couldn't afford a better structure.Its the fiduciarys that will have all the good stuff, ie all the details of the complex arrangements and structures<Edited for readability> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> -------------- Let me start out with the standard disclaimer ... I am an idiot, I know almost nothing, I haven’t taken calculus, I don’t work for NASA, and I am one-quarter Bulgarian sheep dog. With that out of the way, I have several stupid questions... *** A few months blogging can save a few hours in research *** </div>

adrenalynn · Feb 19, 2009

I think it'd be funny if they started disclosing the names of the demos in office.  Cackle!  Oh man, if they have that kind of sense of humor, I'm going to have to start being a fan. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> .bipartisan (bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən) [Adj.] Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.IMPEACH OBAMA! </div>

Smersh · Feb 19, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Id only the dumb and less rich that would have accounts set up in their own name. must would be in complicated Swiss trusts and companies, with barer shares.Basically you'll only see the small fries, like an entertainer that has a couple of mill stashed away that couldn't afford a better structure.Its the fiduciarys that will have all the good stuff, ie all the details of the complex arrangements and structures Posted by BoJangles</DIV>I hope you're wrong, but I suspect that you may be right.  Amongst other things, I'd like to see exposed all the vast fortunes that have been stashed away over the years by third world dictators. Nigeria springs to mind, especially the really spectacularly corrupt leaders such as the late Sani Abacha.As far as the Swiss are concerned, I wonder what would happen regarding all the profits from investments their bankers must have amassed over many years, from money they have held that didn't belong to the people who deposited it with them in the first place?  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <h1 style="margin:0pt;font-size:12px">----------------------------------------------------- </h1>Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea." Churchill: "Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."Website / forums </div>

BoJangles · Feb 20, 2009

Interestingly enough, by Swiss law, they don’t take money from dictators and terrorist, this is actually a recent development since September 11 due to pressuring form the US government. Though that’s not to say they don’t have this type of monies laying in accounts all over Switzerland. Basically, the way they get around it is by creating trusts with a combination of companies domiciled both in Switzerland and usually some other jurisdiction. That way, all that is seen on the books (as far as the bank is concerned) is some company depositing money. The company is then owned by bearer shares (usually kept in a safety deposit box somewhere) , meaning the only way to know who the beneficiaries are, is by tracking down who owns the piece of paper that denotes the bearer, even then its usually routed through a Swiss common law trust and a third party company.Another thing is, these disclosures probably only relates to US citizens. I.e. if they have set their numbered accounts up in any other way other then with their own names (as described above), then there is little chance of the big guys being exposed (sigh). The Swiss economy would collapse overnight if it did it any other way, as people left right and centre would be moving their business to other jurisdictions with more favourable laws.So basically there will be no disclosures of Mugabe or the real nogoodnics.I’ve actually been to Switzerland with a hedge fund I’ve worked for and seen firsthand how these scenarios work, it’s interesting to say the least. Basically the fiduciaries pick you up in person from the airport, put you in 5 star hotels (all expenses paid) and introduce you personally to the bank managers or account managers (it’s all very big wig stuff). From the conversations I was privy too, if these things are set up right, the money is as good as gone, even if your country manages to pressure the banks into disclosing account information which is highly unusual to say the least (which is the case with the US government in the article).So what does this all mean in the case of this article? Unfortunately only the little guys will get caught, anyone who has the money to set these things up properly is very safe indeed.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> -------------- Let me start out with the standard disclaimer ... I am an idiot, I know almost nothing, I haven’t taken calculus, I don’t work for NASA, and I am one-quarter Bulgarian sheep dog. With that out of the way, I have several stupid questions... *** A few months blogging can save a few hours in research *** </div>

Smersh · Feb 20, 2009

Oh yes of course Mugabe - I forgot about him. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-undecided.gif" border="0" alt="Undecided" title="Undecided" />       Frederick Forsyth mentioned in one of his novels once the Belgian banks (he researches his books very thoroughly) and I think he said that many mega-rich a/holes prefer Belgium to Switzerland, but I can't remember the reason he gave now. Also, that was years ago and certainly before 9/11 so maybe things have changed. Of course there are plenty of other off-shore banks as well around the world, so I guess the Mugabes etc stash their loot somewhere else, do they? (Or as you said, there are ways around it with the Swiss, perhaps from loot deposited prior to 9/11.) As you mentioned and according to the NYT article, it looks like only US disclosures will be affected, but might this start some sort of ball rolling for further disclosures, maybe more from the US and elsewhere? (I'm sure we've had/have quite a few dodgy characters in high places here in the UK, for a start ...)Thanks for that insight from your professional experience BoJangles anyway, and for throwing some light on how the system works.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <h1 style="margin:0pt;font-size:12px">----------------------------------------------------- </h1>Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea." Churchill: "Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."Website / forums </div>

cosmictraveler · Feb 20, 2009

Damn, now where can I hide my cash????   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It does not require many words to speak the truth. Chief Joseph </div>

dragon04 · Feb 20, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I think it'd be funny if they started disclosing the names of the demos in office.  Cackle!  Oh man, if they have that kind of sense of humor, I'm going to have to start being a fan. Posted by adrenalynn</DIV>There's like, 52,000 (can you believe that?) potential US Depositors whose records could be demanded. Some of them are bound to be wealthy (*cough* Nancy Pelosi *cough*) Democrats holding elected positions. Maybe even HIGH elected positions.     <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!". </div>

adrenalynn · Feb 21, 2009

Yeah, let's see the Kennedy's account(s).  That should be fun.  And Heinz/Gore.  The list goes on for sure. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> .bipartisan (bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən) [Adj.] Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.IMPEACH OBAMA! </div>

jim48 · Feb 21, 2009

I'm with Traveler: Where am  going to stash it now? But seriously folks, according to USA Today, folks are discreetly contacting the IRS before the IRS not-so-discreetly contacts them. This could be interesting. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

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