ABL, airborn laser, does missile shootdown

[docm]

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN111 ... arketsNews

U.S. successfully tests airborne laser on missile

WASHINGTON, Feb 12 (Reuters) - A U.S. high-powered airborne laser weapon shot down a ballistic missile in the first successful test of a futuristic directed energy weapon, the U.S. Missile Defense Agency said on Friday.
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"The Missile Defense Agency demonstrated the potential use of directed energy to defend against ballistic missiles when the Airborne Laser Testbed (ALTB) successfully destroyed a boosting ballistic missile" the agency said.

The high-powered Airborne Laser system is being developed by Boeing Co., (BA.N) the prime contractor, and the U.S. Missile Defense Agency.

Boeing produces the airframe, a modified 747 jumbo jet, while Northrop Grumman (NOC.N) supplies the higher-energy laser and Lockheed Martin (LMT.N) is developing the beam and fire control systems.

"This was the first directed energy lethal intercept demonstration against a liquid-fuel boosting ballistic missile target from an airborne platform," the agency added.

The airborne laser weapon successfully underwent its first in-flight test against a target missile back in August. During that test, Boeing said the modified 747-400F aircraft took off from Edwards Air Force Base and used its infrared sensors to find a target missile launched from San Nicolas Island, California.
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[a_lost_packet_]

So, I wonder how close we are to shipping this system? There has been some talk about this type of system as being used in place of static anti-missile systems in Europe, replacing the now failed ABM system agreements. When necessary, we can pump out "deterrents" with amazing speed. The great thing about deterrents is they don't really have to perform up to expectations to be an effective deterrrent... just so long as the other guy thinks they do. Of course, sometimes people test your deterrents.. Iraq's SCUD attacks against Israel, for instance. But, it didn't take us very long to overcome many inadequacies and ship new versions of the Patriot system.

Could we field something like this in short enough order to deter Iran should they decide to continue their pursuit of nuclear weapons? After all, a weapon is worth exactly jack&squat if you can never use it effectively to further military goals.

 

[tgeairn]

So, I wonder how close we are to shipping this system?

The funding for this project, and it's successor ABL project, was already cut out of the 2010 budget.

Rep. Ellen Tauscher, D-Calif., the Obama administration's pick for State Department undersecretary for arms control, last month said the ABL program is "eight years behind schedule and $4 billion over cost." Gates canceled plans for a second airborne-laser prototype.

"The ABL program has significant affordability and technology problems, and the program's proposed operational role is highly questionable," Gates said.

 

[Shpaget]

So, if someone launches a missile from the Atlantic, let's say a 1000 miles off coast targeting a coastal city, can this plane take off and position itself fast enough?
How many of these planes should be at standby 24/7 to cover entire US?
Are they going to be flying non stop or will they wait on the ground?

Technology is nice, but I don't think it is going to be very useful. Too expensive to maintain.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

The funding for this project, and it's successor ABL project, was already cut out of the 2010 budget.

Well, I guess it's just research for now.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

So, if someone launches a missile from the Atlantic, let's say a 1000 miles off coast targeting a coastal city, can this plane take off and position itself fast enough?
How many of these planes should be at standby 24/7 to cover entire US?
Are they going to be flying non stop or will they wait on the ground?

Technology is nice, but I don't think it is going to be very useful. Too expensive to maintain.

IIRC, the system depends on catching the missile during its initial boost phase. It's not for interception during re-entry. But, if SAC could maintain bombers in the Air during the heights of the Cold War, we could certainly maintain a few of these and rotate them in the air during period of heightened alert near potentially hostile countries. Then, it's just a matter of intelligence concerning potential launch sites, range and station keeping.

 

[ZenGalacticore]

What happens if the enemy launches a thousand decoys along with a few hot warheads?

 

[CalliArcale]

Go after a few and hope you get the right one.

The main problem with the airborne laser is that you have to be fortunate enough to have it in the air in the right area at the right time. Other than that, it's a pretty sweet piece of technology. As a 747 fan, I'm quite happy to see the first weaponized 747 make its first kill. ;-)

 

[a_lost_packet_]

What happens if the enemy launches a thousand decoys along with a few hot warheads?

Most warhead decoys are going to be in the payload package, deployed after the initial boost phase. Actual "decoy" whole missiles are pretty much a waste of effort. Well, at least they "were" a waste of effort until the development of weapons capable of reaching out and touching a boosting ICBM before it leaves the atmosphere.

 

[docm]

While cutting this and the ground based system they are moving ahead with a ground based system based on the Navy's SM-3, the Aegis missile that shot down that satellite last year. IIRC the funding for a solid state tactical laser continues, especially now that this electric laser is approaching the magic 100 kw power for it to be a battlefield/airborn weapon. LockMart had plans for it to be mounted in the lift fan bay of a modified F-35B, powered by a generator driven by the fan driveshaft.

 

[nimbus]

Gates told Congress last year. “The reality is that you would need a laser something like 20 to 30 times more powerful than the chemical laser in the plane right now to be able to get any distance from the launch site to fire.”

So, right now the [jet] would have to orbit inside the borders of Iran in order to be able to try and use its laser to shoot down that missile in the boost phase. And if you were to operationalize this you would be looking at 10 to 20 747s, at a billion and a half dollars apiece, and $100 million a year to operate. And there’s nobody in uniform that I know who believes that this is a workable concept.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

Gates told Congress last year. “The reality is that you would need a laser something like 20 to 30 times more powerful than the chemical laser in the plane right now to be able to get any distance from the launch site to fire.”

So, right now the [jet] would have to orbit inside the borders of Iran in order to be able to try and use its laser to shoot down that missile in the boost phase. And if you were to operationalize this you would be looking at 10 to 20 747s, at a billion and a half dollars apiece, and $100 million a year to operate. And there’s nobody in uniform that I know who believes that this is a workable concept.

Ouch. Well... It's still a cool aircraft. Too bad there's not much of a practical use for it until they can increase its range.

 

[nimbus]

Yeah they can probably be safe in cancelling this one and picking up again once laser power tech catches up.

 

[CalliArcale]

Pretty much. It's a cool toy, but the laser's just too frakking huge to be useful. I mean, if it needs the biggest aircraft turret ever built, and has to be lugged by a freakin' 747 (one of the biggest jets in the world), then it might be just a wee bit impractical in the near term.

 

[strandedonearth]

For this to have any chance to be useful, it would have to be the lightest payload possible, hooked to a solar-electric UAV, orbiting up around 70kft at least. Then it would be a sitting duck. But once the units are paid for, operations should be pretty cheap. The big trick is being able to fire a few times.

 

[Boris_Badenov]

The first breech loading rifle used in combat was a failure, not due to it being bad technology or even a bad design (it could fire 10 rounds a minute compared to a muzzle loading smoothbore's 3) but due to the officers not being able to figure out how to properly deploy it.
If the Air Force can't figure out how to use this system I'm sure the Navy can. :twisted:

 

[MannyPim]

The best platform for this weapon system is not a jumbo jet.
It's a Dark Sky type platform hovering with station keep engines over international airspace just outside the threat origin at 140,000 feet altitude.

This is a mile diameter floating city in the sky. permanently manned and bristling with long range sensors and multiple laser weapons and large quantities of stored fuels for teh laser system.

 

[ZenGalacticore]

The best platform for this weapon system is not a jumbo jet.
It's a Dark Sky type platform hovering with station keep engines over international airspace just outside the threat origin at 140,000 feet altitude.

This is a mile diameter floating city in the sky. permanently manned and bristling with long range sensors and multiple laser weapons and large quantities of stored fuels for teh laser system.

Who's in command of this hovering mega-platform?

Darth Pimm, no doubt. Or perhaps his mentor, Darth InHannity. :lol:

Have a great weekend Darth Pimm.

 

[Boris_Badenov]

The best platform for this weapon system is not a jumbo jet.
It's a Dark Sky type platform hovering with station keep engines over international airspace just outside the threat origin at 140,000 feet altitude.

This is a mile diameter floating city in the sky. permanently manned and bristling with long range sensors and multiple laser weapons and large quantities of stored fuels for teh laser system.

That'll work real well until somebody on Terra Firma uses their LASER to shoot it down.

 

[MannyPim]

The best platform for this weapon system is not a jumbo jet.
It's a Dark Sky type platform hovering with station keep engines over international airspace just outside the threat origin at 140,000 feet altitude.

This is a mile diameter floating city in the sky. permanently manned and bristling with long range sensors and multiple laser weapons and large quantities of stored fuels for teh laser system.

That'll work real well until somebody on Terra Firma uses their LASER to shoot it down.

I think the jumbo jet platform has the same vulnerability.

 

[Boris_Badenov]

The best platform for this weapon system is not a jumbo jet.
It's a Dark Sky type platform hovering with station keep engines over international airspace just outside the threat origin at 140,000 feet altitude.

This is a mile diameter floating city in the sky. permanently manned and bristling with long range sensors and multiple laser weapons and large quantities of stored fuels for teh laser system.

That'll work real well until somebody on Terra Firma uses their LASER to shoot it down.

I think the jumbo jet platform has the same vulnerability.

And the simplicity of the defense against this new weapon is exposed. :shock:

 

[nimbus]

Might be a temporary vulnerability. Light enough packaging and you might be able use that same laser to zap anything incoming too.