About Geo Sync Orbit

[holmec]

Are we creating a ring for Earth by having Geo Sync Orbit satellites?<br /><br />How much dust is in the Geo Sync Orbit region of Earth? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[vogon13]

Pressure of sunlight removes dust (if small enough). While there are many satellites in GEO, keep in mind, the length of the orbit is over 150,000 miles long. Directv can launch satellites for centuries before it appreciably starts to fill in. Additionally, IIRC, GEO is rather outside of the earth's Roche limit in any regard.<br /><br /><br />Ask about LEO sometime . . . . . . .<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[search]

Check it yourself:<br />http://www.n2yo.com/

 

[willpittenger]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>While there are many satellites in GEO, keep in mind, the length of the orbit is over 150,000 miles long. Directv can launch satellites for centuries before it appreciably starts to fill in.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />FYI: The GEO orbital area is divided up into slots. Craft that have reached the end of their lives are required to use the last of their fuel to push themselves into higher orbits. Such orbits, being outside the GEO orbit, will continue to increase in diameter forever (barring interference from the solar wind or gravitational tugs from the Moon or other planets). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[qso1]

vogon13:<br />keep in mind, the length of the orbit is over 150,000 miles long.<br /><br />Me:<br />In addition to that, IIRC, the average spacing between geosats is 900 miles. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[heyscottie]

They will NOT continue to increase orbit height forever. They will just settle into the higher orbit their final fuel pushed them into.

 

[vogon13]

And average being just that. Seperation along the arc is affected by the uplink and downlink frequencies used. Higher frequencies allow closer seperation of the satellites. (diameter of the parabolic reflectors used on orbit and on the ground affect spacing too, larger is better) (ain't it always?) Case in point, Directv is using Ka (or was it Ku?) band now to provide local channels in high definition, and this equipment allows very close spacing of the satellites.<br /><br />As long as adjacent satellites don't receive each others uplink (and conversely, the ground stations can resolve adjacent satellites) everything is copacetic.<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

They will however be in orbits slower that the earth's rotation. Maybe that's what he was thinking of. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Confused fer sure <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[nexium]

Perhaps willpittenger was thinking orbits increase in diameter a few millimeters per century if they are beyond GEO stationary orbit. The Moon is and does.<br /> Actually it is counter intuitive that LEO spiral in as friction slows their orbital speed. Neil

 

[vogon13]

Is that what he was going on about? <br /><br />I can't imagine tidal effects being particularly vigorous on a TV satellite . . . . <br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

They WILL recede -- just as the Moon (also beyond GEO) is already receding. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

I would take time and not be very measurable, but it would happen. And, yes, the cause would be tides. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[qso1]

vogon13:<br />As long as adjacent satellites don't receive each others uplink (and conversely, the ground stations can resolve adjacent satellites) everything is copacetic.<br /><br />Me:<br />And when spacing of satellites is closer than the 900 mile average, thats more sats that can be crammed into geosynch...copacetic it is. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[vogon13]

More high definiton programming!<br /><br />It's a good thing.<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

How close could modern designs get before they risk collisions? I am not aware of any with some sort of collision avoidance system -- automatic or otherwise. So just how well do they hold their station? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[qso1]

I'd say no closer than a thousand feet, and thats just my estimation based on a satellites ability to do thruster firings to correct its orbit on a non interferance basis with nearby satellites, and a good ole conservative safety margin which might actually dictate larger separations.<br /><br />But theres plenty of room because in addition to the sheer size of the orbit, think of it as a volumetric ring in which one satellite could be a thousand feet in front of another with still another a thousand feet above and so on.<br /><br />But considering the fact that just on the relatively flat plane of the continental U.S. We have numerous large structures but much more unoccupied space in the deserts etc. Crowding in geosynch may become an issue for some other technical reason, but I doubt due to spacing problems. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

willpittenger:<br />So just how well do they hold their station?<br /><br />Me:<br />This I do not know but can only estimate that they do a pretty decent job based on the size of the satellites that typically occupy geosynch. The size shows that not a lot of propellant is on board which in turn means not that many thruster corrections are required. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>a thousand feet above<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Above? You didn't mean North/South did you? A thousand feet North will become a thousand feet South on the other side of the Earth. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[qso1]

Lol, something like that, will just say above the spacecrafts positive vertical reference "Y" axis. I chose "Y" here because thats the vertical axis designation in Lightwave 3D where I build computer models. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

He means that if the inclination of the orbit is a teeny bit greater than 0, the spacecraft will be, say, a thousand feet north on one side of its orbit, and a thousand feet south on the other side. (Ascending versus descending nodes are what he's alluding to.) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>