AP story on Direct 2.0 vs. NASA mgt.

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docm

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<p>The conflict isn't just in the space forums anymore, it's broken out into the MSM....</p><p>Link....</p><p><strong><font size="2">Quote:</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2">NASA engineers work on alternative moon rocket</font></strong></p><p><font size="2">(AP) -- By day, the engineers work on NASA's new Ares moon rockets. By night, some go undercover to work on a competing design. These dissenting scientists and their backers insist they have created an alternative rocket that would be safer, cheaper and easier to build than the two Ares spacecraft that will replace the space shuttle.</font></p><p><span><font size="2">They call their project Jupiter, and like Ares, it's a brainchild of workers at the Marshall Space Flight Center and other NASA facilities. The engineers involved are doing the work on their own time and mostly anonymously, with the help of retirees and other space enthusiasts. </font></span></p><p><span><font size="2">A key Ares project manager dismisses their design as little more than a sketch on a napkin that won't work. <br /><br />A spokesman for the competing effort, Ross Tierney, said concerned engineers at NASA and some contractors want a review of the Ares plans but can't speak out for fear of being demoted, transferred or fired. <br /> /></font><span> </span></span></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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KosmicHero

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<p>&nbsp;</p><p>Is there a way to transfer the article comments to the forum?&nbsp; The comments on the article&nbsp;are&nbsp;becoming intense.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> kosmichero.wordpress.com </div>
 
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Carrickagh

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<p>Here's a link to the Jupiter site. There is even a link to contact your Congressional rep:</p><p>&nbsp;http://www.directlauncher.com/</p><p>=:)</p><p>It would be&nbsp;sort of ironic if a handful of guys in Huntsville Alabama would cobble together a design and...oh, never mind...</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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Cygnus_2112

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Here's a link to the Jupiter site. There is even a link to contact your Congressional rep:&nbsp;http://www.directlauncher.com/=:-)It would be&nbsp;sort of ironic if a handful of guys in Huntsville Alabama would cobble together a design and...oh, never mind... <br /> Posted by Carrickagh</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Direct is not&nbsp; from Huntsville. &nbsp; They have a few from there on the team.&nbsp; The Direct main players are from Cape Canaveral and the DC area </p>
 
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DrRocket

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<p>With all of the comments on the AP story, some facts probably ought to be re-stated for the sake of clarity and accuracy.</p><p>There seems to be a pervasive but incorrect perception that a 5-segment SRB has never been tested.&nbsp; That is not correct.&nbsp; A 5-segment design was tested in October 2003&nbsp;to demonstrate margin and&nbsp;and to evaluate such a design for performance improvement as a possible means of providing an abort to orbit capability.&nbsp; This was quite a bit in advance of the Ares concept, or of the Columbia accident.</p><p>http://www.truveo.com/5-Segment-SRB-Test-at-Thiokol/id/2030089033</p><p>http://atk.mediaroom.com/index.php?item=569<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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Cygnus_2112

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>With all of the comments on the AP story, some facts probably ought to be re-stated for the sake of clarity and accuracy.There seems to be a pervasive but incorrect perception that a 5-segment SRB has never been tested.&nbsp; That is not correct.&nbsp; A 5-segment design was tested in October 2003&nbsp;to demonstrate margin and&nbsp;and to evaluate such a design for performance improvement as a possible means of providing an abort to orbit capability.&nbsp; This was quite a bit in advance of the Ares concept, or of the Columbia accident.http://www.truveo.com/5-Segment-SRB-Test-at-Thiokol/id/2030089033http://atk.mediaroom.com/index.php?item=569 <br /> Posted by DrRocket</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>It wasn't a "design" that is applicable to ares.&nbsp; 5 segments were just placed together. &nbsp; There wasn't any propellant shaping done&nbsp; </p>
 
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DrRocket

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;It wasn't a "design" that is applicable to ares.&nbsp; 5 segments were just placed together. &nbsp; There wasn't any propellant shaping done&nbsp; <br />Posted by Cygnus_2112</DIV></p><p>That is not the case.&nbsp; There was quite a bit of analysis performed to avoid what is called a flow, propellant interaction in which pressure drop causes propellant deformation that further restricts flow in a positive feedback loop that results in a catastrophic failure.&nbsp; Due to that analysis the propellant grain was chamfered at the interfaces between segments.&nbsp; Without that work the test probably would have failed.&nbsp; Of course the forward fin slots of the normal design were also in place as was the usual relief on the aft end that accomodates nozzle movement during vectoring.&nbsp; The propellant grain was shaped to provide what was desirable at that time for the pressure-time curve.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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spacemozart

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Here's a link to the Jupiter site. There is even a link to contact your Congressional rep:&nbsp;http://www.directlauncher.com/=:-)It would be&nbsp;sort of ironic if a handful of guys in Huntsville Alabama would cobble together a design and...oh, never mind... <br /> Posted by Carrickagh</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I've sent a message to my representative the other day about this. I of course have no real way of knowing if the Jupiter Launcher is viable, all I want is for an independent review of this proposal to be made. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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shuttle_guy

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>...................... A 5-segment design was tested in October 2003&nbsp;to demonstrate margin and&nbsp;and to evaluate such a design for performance improvement as a possible means of providing an abort to orbit capability.&nbsp; This was quite a bit in advance of the Ares concept, or of the Columbia accident.http://www.truveo.com/5-Segment-SRB-Test-at-Thiokol/id/2030089033http://atk.mediaroom.com/index.php?item=569 <br />Posted by DrRocket</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>The Columbia accident was in Feb 2003.<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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DrRocket

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;The Columbia accident was in Feb 2003. <br />Posted by shuttle_guy</DIV></p><p>Correct.&nbsp; My bad.&nbsp; Faulty memory.&nbsp; The test&nbsp;followed the Columbia accident.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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KosmicHero

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spacemozart, maybe there should be an independent review of all the over 1000 designs NASA considered in response to the VSE? <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> kosmichero.wordpress.com </div>
 
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DrRocket

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>spacemozart, maybe there should be an independent review of all the over 1000 designs NASA considered in response to the VSE? <br />Posted by KosmicHero</DIV></p><p>Great idea.&nbsp; I know just the right guys to flog that dead horse.&nbsp; </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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vulture4

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>spacemozart, maybe there should be an independent review of all the over 1000 designs NASA considered in response to the VSE? <br /> Posted by KosmicHero</DIV></p><p>NASA considered designs in response to the VSE? Surely you jest.&nbsp; </p>
 
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vulture4

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>spacemozart, maybe there should be an independent review of all the over 1000 designs NASA considered in response to the VSE? <br /> Posted by KosmicHero</DIV></p><p>NASA considered designs in response to the VSE? Surely you jest. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><span><font size="2">"A key Ares project manager dismisses their design as little more than a sketch on a napkin that won't work."</font></span></p><p>-- An astonishingly accurate description of the VSE as well.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
 
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