Apollo artifacts visable?

[baktothemoon]

>What kind of evidence would it take to convice us that the moon landings were fake?<br /><br />It would take evidence that can't be debunked by someone with a high school level education, evidence of the techniques needed to fake the lunar landing (like how they faked walking in 1/6th G), an explanation for how the moon rocks were "fabricated", some radar telemetry showing that the CM and LEM went anywhere other than the moon, and finally, rational arguments. Some of the moon hoax claimers have non factual arguments, like one person I saw made a vacuum chamber with a rubber glove in it to show how a vacuum would supposably make it impossible for an astronaut to flex their fingers with that ammount of pressure inside the glove. He didn't take into acount that suit pressure is a few PSI below atmospheric pres. <br />Bottom line, there needs to be REAL evidence for anyone to be open to the possibility of a hoax.

 

[brellis]

<font color="yellow">We are closed minded to the possibility of it being a hoax and they are closed minded to the possibility that its real.</font><br /><br />A few years ago, I made a diligent effort to 'open my mind' to the hoax possibility. If it was a hoax, how could 400,000 people keep their mouths shut for 40 years? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">how could 400,000 people keep their mouths shut for 40 years?</font>/i><br /><br />How do you know there <i><b>really</b></i> was 400,000 people working on the effort? This has been a big problem in Iraq where thousands of Iraqi troops cannot be accounted for, probably because they never existed -- but the US still hands over cash (because there isn't a working banking system in Iraq) to local commanders to pay these ghosts their salaries.<br /><br />On the othe hand, maybe 400,000 people really did work on the project, but 399,950 thought everything was real. Only a very small handful knew about the hoax.</i>

 

[brellis]

I can sense the dead horse coming back to life here <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /> <br /><br />400,000 people <i>did</i> work on the Apollo project. There are ample records, pay stubs, etc. Any of those people carrying even the slightest proof of a hoax would stand to make an incredible fortune selling the story. <br /><br />Look at all the million dollar book deals people get for revealing government secrets. It's the American way of keeping everyone honest <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[qso1]

astronaut23:<br />We are closed minded to the possibility of it being a hoax and they are closed minded to the possibility that its real. <br /><br />Me:<br />Not entirely true.<br /><br />I was 13 when Neil Armstrong walked on the moon and I was a certifiable space nerd so I was interested and pretty much convinced. My first experience with an HB was my Aunt, who less than a month later, expressed her thoughts that the mission was faked.<br /><br />Years later I came to understand she was born barely a few decades after electricity and cars and was probably suffering something called "Future shock" which is a term coined in a novel by someone famous I cannot recall now.<br /><br />So...I went in as a believer, and came away after much research, watching Apollo 15-17 videos where uncut footage was shown on TV live for hours. Looked at numerous photos, examined HB arguments, even watched Capricorn 1 which was a thinly disguised commentary on Apollo being faked. My research into human spaceflight had a primary purpose but keeping an eye out for any possibility that the Apollo landings were faked was sort of a secondary purpose.<br /><br />In the end, I came away with the realization that because I cannot go to the moon and see the evidence first hand, I cannot say with 100% certainty that man landed on the moon. At the same time, the evidence I have seen over the decades, and the in depth discussions I have had with HBs has lead me to conclude that the evidence is overwhelming that Neil Armstrong and other Apollo lunar surface astronauts did indeed walk on the moon.<br /><br />I'd say I have been, and continue to be open minded about the possibility of fakery. I just have yet to see convincing evidence to support the claim. I doubt I'm the only open minded person on this subject. I suspect even a few HBs are open minded. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<i>We are closed minded to the possibility of it being a hoax and they are closed minded to the possibility that its real.</i><br /><br />Speaking for yourself you may be right. But some of us look at evidence in such matters.<br /><br />Jon<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<i>On the othe hand, maybe 400,000 people really did work on the project, but 399,950 thought everything was real. Only a very small handful knew about the hoax.</i><br /><br />You are kidding I assume.<br /><br />But let's look at the absurdity of this position. If only 50 people knew the hoax occurred then what was actually hoaxed?<br /><br />The Saturns were real and were built by thousands and witnessed by millions when they launched. No hoax there.<br /><br />The spacecraft left earth orbit and travelled to the Moon and back, tracked by the Russians and civilians from many countries. No hoax there.<br /><br />The Russians tracked the transmissions from lunar orbit and from the surface as well. That could not have been hoaxed. <br /><br />Nearly half a tonne of Moon rocks were returned, carrying unique geochemical signatures that required them to have been formed on a different world. So they are genuine.<br /><br />Thousands of people watched the recovery of the astronauts after splash down. That was real. So where could the hoax have been done.<br /><br />Even if 99.999999% of all the evidence that people went to the Moon is fake and just 0.000001% genuine then that is enough to say we have been there. <br /><br />However, in nearly 40 years not one claim that the Moon landings has been hoaxed has withstood scrutiny. Not one person has made a deathbed confession that they faked it. The Apollo samples have been examined with instruments not even imagined when they were collected, and are still regarde as genuine. The material and documentary record has been examine in detail by historians, and no one has found any flaws.<br /><br />Denying we went to the Moon is like denying that WWII happened.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

I haven't forgotten anything. I don't lament the passing of the USSR as a political system at all. But to describe the space race as being right vs wrong, good vs evil I don't think is justified.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[qso1]

JonClarke:<br />Not one person has made a deathbed confession that they faked it.<br /><br />Me:<br />Even if there should someday be such a confession, there would have to be an enormous amount of evidence to sway me from the overwhelming evidence that is presently available to support the landing. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Indeed. Only one such statement would not be enough (people do go senile) and there would have to be a lot of supporting evidence! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[earth_bound_misfit]

"Nearly half a tonne of Moon rocks were returned, carrying unique geochemical signatures that required them to have been formed on a different world. So they are genuine. "<br /><br />Yes Jon, I'm sure you've seen the moon rock at Canberra Space Centre. It's quite beautiful isn't it? Looks to have lots of quartz in it? Glen the Curator, if IIRC said it's worth something like $10 million and it's not much bigger than a golf ball. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Indeed I have. Glen's a great fellow.<br /><br />Of course here in Canberra we also have Prof. Ross Taylor, who did the very first analyses on the lunar samples. <br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[astronaut23]

http://video.google.com:80/videoplay?docid=-4280164630927881599&q=NASA<br /><br /><br />Can someone explain this video. Forget the Van Allen belt sillyness. That doesnt wash with me. I've always heard they went through those too fast for much damage to be done.<br /><br />I've never seen this footage before though. Why would the Apollo 11 crew be faking shots of being far away from Earth throught an insert in the window when clearly at the end of the video they remove a piece which lets the blue light of Earth inside showing them to be in LEO when they are claim to be more than 100,000 miles from Earth?<br /><br />Watch this video with an open mind of whats going on and tell me what they are doing that?

 

[MeteorWayne]

Future Shock= Alvin Toffler<br /><br />I remember reading it when it came out oh so many mmons ago <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br /> wiki article <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

That video has been thoroughly discussed in another thread here.<br /><br />Won't do it again. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[astronaut23]

And what thread is that? I didn't know anything about it of course.

 

[MeteorWayne]

Yeah, I know you didn't, but we're rather tired of covering the same ground over and over again.<br /><br />I'll see if I can find it before this thread gets exiled to Phenomena. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

here's the Apollo Moon Hoax thread <br /><br />The video is discussed later in the thread.<br /><br />have fun! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">You are kidding I assume.</font>/i><br /><br />Yeah. It was the plot line to the movie Capricorn One. Even the astronauts didn't know that the mission was going to be faked until they were taken off the launch pad at the last second and taken to a secret location.<br /><br />By the way, someone is remaking the movie.</i>

 

[astronaut23]

Lets put it this way. Considering NASA's not been back to the moon since the early 70's and nobody else has gone that we know of unless theres some secret government moon landing program. <br /><br />Then the damn moon landings are one mind blowing accomplishment.

 

[telfrow]

<font color="yellow">I'll see if I can find it before this thread gets exiled to Phenomena.</font><br /><br />It's close.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Why would the Apollo 11 crew be faking shots of being far away from Earth throught an insert in the window when clearly at the end of the video they remove a piece which lets the blue light of Earth inside showing them to be in LEO when they are claim to be more than 100,000 miles from Earth? <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Well, the short explanation is that they weren't doing anything of the kind; the video conveniently omits the context that makes it all clear what's going on. But read the thread other posters have mentioned; it goes into detail.<br /><br />(BTW, I'm making an assumption about which video you're linking. I can't view videos from work.) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

The premise of Capricorn 1 (may the fleas of 10,000 camels invest the armpits of the producer) was that it was a real mission that had the plug pulled at the last minute because of technical problems.<br /><br />Ironically for the HBs, the whole story is about how the hoax becomes unstuck. Even Hollywood can't find a convincing way to hoax a mission. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<i>Lets put it this way. Considering NASA's not been back to the moon since the early 70's and nobody else has gone that we know of unless theres some secret government moon landing program.</i><br /><br />It would be impossible to have a secret mission to the Moon. What boosters were used, where were they launched from, where are the budget appropriations? Space missions are routinely tracked by many nations and amateurs. They can't be hidden.<br /><br /><i>Then the damn moon landings are one mind blowing accomplishment.</i><br /><br />They certainly were. The more one looks into what was achieved, the more impressive it becomes. One of the few accomplishments of the 20th century that the human race can take pride in. That is why the the suggestion that it was a hoax is offensive as well as wrong to those who know something about Apollo.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[portercc]

Sorry guys, I just find this whole hoax thing hilarous...it was a marvelous feat.<br />Pic is of Eugene Cernan. I shook hands with him...the last man to walk on the moon. Pretty big thrill for me.