Apophis vs. Mars

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mythrz

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Say there is some way (gravity tractor?, etc.) to manipulate the path of an asteroid, like Apophis, then I propose an idea. Let's also say that Mars supports no life. Let's direct Apophis into Mars! Would it be enough to maybe stir up some things on Mars? Atmosphere or maybe even life? I guess what I'm pointing at is terra-forming. Would that help terra-form a dead planet?
 
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qso1

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I doubt it, simply because terraforming is a long term process. Sending an asteroid crashing into Mars will simply create a giant impact crater, kick dust into what little atmosphere Mars has. The process of terraforming would require centuries of building the atmosphere by artificial means to the level that Earths is at. Mars probably would not hold any atmosphere generated by terraforming keeping in mind the main theory as to why it has such a tenuous atmosphere is that its gravity was not strong enough to hold one. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>
 
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bonzelite

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i tend to agree w/you. <br /><br />mars' atmo as well is thought to have been stripped away in a cataclysm. i think it could hold on to more atmo were it introduced. but it would take centuries, as you suggest.
 
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vonster

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possibly if an alien civilization left a planetary oxygen generator buried on mars, and arnold swartzenegger found the activator mechanism and stuck his hand in it to fire the whole thing off...<br /><br />.. then we might have blue skys on mars. but maybe not.<br /><br /><br />.
 
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mythrz

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Ok. Well kick asteroids out of scenario. Let's use Mars' moon Phobos. But instead of a direct impact, lets make it a grazing side impact. Could that maybe speed Mars' rotation up some and could speeding up Mars' rotation create a more stable atmosphere? This was just an idea I had and figured, as unpratical as it sounds, that it would kick start something on Mars' atleast (other than dust).
 
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mythrz

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or would that be to minut to do anything? Bah.... let's throw our moon at it!
 
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alokmohan

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i THINK ATMOSPHERE OF MARS CONTAINS NITROGEN AND OXYGEN.Terraforming is not all that tough.You may see mars socirty web site.Robert Zubrin has written a lot.Possibly mars is only planet we may terraform easily and shift there.
 
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3488

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The pathetically thin atmosphere is almost certainly Carbon Dioxide, with only trace amounts of Nitrogen & atomic Oxygen (made inside stars, not through photosynthesis).<br /><br />The atmosphere on Mars at the Datum line is about the same density of the Earth's atmosphere at 30 kilometres (19 miles) above sea level. The only reason why the daytime sky on Mars is not black (the atmosphere is not really dense enough to create rayleigh scattering as on Earth, giving us Blue Skies weather permitting & that Mars is about 50% further from the sun, so the sun is only half as bright as seen form Mars), is due to microscopic dust particles being suspended, & it is these that makes the sky bright orange - pink by scattering sunlight. <br /><br />Terraforming in theory may work, & work well in the short term, but unless Mars afterwards is maintained, it is doomed to failure & will revert to how it is now. <br /><br />Remember Mars is the way it is now for a multitude of reasons (small size, only 11% Earth mass, quite far from the sun, 38% surface gravity, no magnetosphere, fairly quite on the geological front now, proximity to the inner edge of the asteroid belt). <br /><br />Humans terraforming it, will not change these underlying reasons. The notion of terraforming Mars, then job done & humanity living there as happy families in a Utopian fantasy land is just a load of total nonsense. <br /><br />Terraforming Mars may well work, I am not saying it won't, but it will be a constant process & then the fight to maintain it as Mars will try to revert. I have not seen as yet how humans will prevent the terraformed atmosphere from escaping into space? Will it involve constructing a pressurised glass sphere around the entire planet?? If that is so, put it around the moon. It is small, close to Earth & will be quicker & cheaper.<br /><br />How will humans shield Mars, due to the lack of a magnetosphere? What about the proximity of the asteroid belt? Devastati <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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alokmohan

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Robert Zubrin (RZ): Yes.<br /><br />AM: Does Mars contain all of the elements needed to make the planet habitable, or will we have to import gases, chemicals, etc., from elsewhere? If so, then will Mars always need constant inputs to achieve habitability, or do you think that given enough inputs Mars would reach a tipping point and planetary processes would create a self-sustaining feed-back loop?<br /><br />RZ: It appears that Mars does have all the elements needed for terraforming. The one outstanding question is nitrogen, whose inventory remains unknown. However theory suggests that Mars should have had an initial supply of nitrogen comparable to the Earth, and it seems likely that much of this is still there.<br /><br />AM: How long will terraforming take? When you envision a terraformed Mars, what do you see?<br /><br />RZ: If one considers the problem of terraforming Mars from the point of view of current technology, the scenario looks like this:<br /><br />1. A century to settle Mars and create a substantial local industrial capability and population.<br />2. A half century producing fluorocarbon gases (like CF4) to warm the planet by ~10 C.<br />3. A half century for CO2 to outgas from the soil under the impetus of the fluorocarbon gases, thickening the atmosphere to 0.2 to 0.3 bar, and raising the planetary temperature a further 40 C. This will cause water to melt out of the permafrost, and rivers to flow and rain to fall. Radiation doses on the surface will also be greatly reduced. Under these conditions, with active human help, first photosynthetic microbes and then ever more complex plants could be spread over the planet, as they would be able to grow in the open. Humans on Mars in this stage would no longer need pressure suits, just oxygen masks, and very large domed cities could be built, as the domes would no longer need to contain pressure greater than the outside environment.<br />4. Over a period of about a thousand years, human-disseminated and harvested plant
 
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3488

Guest
Alokmohan, I think that you are right. It is too easy to look at this from a 21st Century viewpoint with current technology. The analogy with the Apollo capsule is pretty good.<br /><br />The thing though thast will not change, are the reasons why, Mars is as it is. The chemicals are all there, no problem. What is not there however is sufficient surface gravity (38% of Earth) & planetary mass (11% of Earth), lack of magnetosphere. <br /><br />Also there is insufficient solar energy is also lacking (average global temp: minus 63 Celsius, look at the large size of the solar panels on the MER Rovers, Mars Pathfinder & the Mars Orbiters), due to Mars being considerably further away from the sun. <br /><br />The average solar constant on Mars is about 630 watts (this would only be possible between the Tropic of Aquarius & the Tropic of Leo on Mars during the course of the martian year) per square metre as against 1,320 watts per square metre on Earth between the Tropic of Cancer & the Tropic of Capricorn during the course of the year (although I think our dense atmosphere does filter some out).<br /><br />Mars will naturally revert to its current barren state, without constant 24/7 maintainence post terraforming & will try to do so even during terraforming. As a 'short' term project, terraforming Mars is possible. <br /><br />Long term, it is a non-starter, unless the ENTIRE planet is covered by a pressurised greenhouse. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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3488

Guest
Alokmohan, I would love to see this possibilty happen as much as you. <br /><br />My point is that Mars is the way it is for several reasons, obeying very basic & sound natural laws & terraforming is not a permanent solution. I am not dismissing Human Habitation on Mars, not at all, I think it will happen, jut as life found its way out of the oceans onto land, human habitation on Mars is a long term certainty & a necessity (if we do not become extinct first).<br /><br />CO2 & Methane would certainly warm things up somewhat due to their Greenhouse properties. <br /><br />This however would not solve the leakage into space of a potentially thickened atmosphere. You are on the right track, definately, no question, but I fear that due to the physical properties of Mars, it will fail given time.<br /><br />However if we could do this, you should manage it, as you seem to know a great deal about this. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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