Are black holes really DARK ENERGY STARS?

[jimglenn]

I posted this in freespace and it was suggested you starpeople might be interested. Enjoy!<br /><br />http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050328/full/050328-8.html<br /><br />Published online: 31 March 2005<br /><br />Black holes 'do not exist'<br /><br />Philip Ball <br /><br />These mysterious objects are dark-energy stars, physicist claims. <br /> <br />Black holes, such as the one pictured in this artist's impression, may in fact be pockets of 'dark energy'. <br /> <br />Black holes are staples of science fiction and many think astronomers have observed them indirectly. But according to a physicist at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California, these awesome breaches in space-time do not and indeed cannot exist. <br /><br />Over the past few years, observations of the motions of galaxies have shown that some 70% the Universe seems to be composed of a strange 'dark energy' that is driving the Universe's accelerating expansion. <br /><br />George Chapline thinks that the collapse of the massive stars, which was long believed to generate black holes, actually leads to the formation of stars that contain dark energy. "It's a near certainty that black holes don't exist," he claims.<br /><br />Black holes are one of the most celebrated predictions of Einstein's general theory of relativity, which explains gravity as the warping of space-time caused by massive objects. The theory suggests that a sufficiently massive star, when it dies, will collapse under its own gravity to a single point.<br /><br />But Einstein didn't believe in black holes, Chapline argues. "Unfortunately", he adds, "he couldn't articulate why." At the root of the problem is the other revolutionary theory of twentieth-century physics, which Einstein also helped to formulate: quantum mechanics.<br /><br /> It's a near certainty that black holes don't exist. <br /><br />George Chapline<br />Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory <b></b> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[najab]

Colourful theory. My question would be: "So what stops the collapse of the star and 'creates' the dark-energy?

 

[emperor_of_localgroup]

Finally someone much smarter than i am saying against black holes. I dont feel stupid anymore. So far I believed what theoretical astrophysicists said, but in the back of my head there was a doubt because of the differences between unrealistic predictions about blackholes and the physical world we see and live everyday.<br /><br />But I'll be speechless if someone asks me what about the observational evidences? Can they refute that too?<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#ff0000"><strong>Earth is Boring</strong></font> </div>

 

[gfpaladin]

Wasn't there a paper at the recent APS meeting (March 21-25, Los Angeles, CA.) in which the authors discussed measurements of the mass of the black hole at the center of our galaxy?

 

[Saiph]

Quite likely. <br /><br />A wonderful online archive of astronomy journal articles is NASA's Astrophysics Data System (ADS). <br /><br />http://adswww.harvard.edu/<br /><br />Just click the search button, and in the "search abstract" field, punch in a few keywords. Or you could try to search the title (harder unless you know what you're looking for). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p align="center"><font color="#c0c0c0"><br /></font></p><p align="center"><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">----</font></em></font><font color="#666699">SaiphMOD@gmail.com </font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">-------------------</font></em></font></p><p><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">"This is my Timey Wimey Detector.  Goes "bing" when there's stuff.  It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually.  I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- </font></em></font><font size="1" color="#999999">The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[R1]

[In general relativity, there is no such thing as a 'universal time' that makes clocks tick at the same rate everywhere. Instead, gravity makes clocks run at different rates in different places. But quantum mechanics, which describes physical phenomena at infinitesimally small scales, is meaningful only if time is universal; if not, its equations make no sense. <br /><br />This problem is particularly pressing at the boundary, or event horizon, of a black hole. To a far-off observer, time seems to stand still here. A spacecraft falling into a black hole would seem, to someone watching it from afar, to be stuck forever at the event horizon, although the astronauts in the spacecraft would feel as if they were continuing to fall. "General relativity predicts that nothing happens at the event horizon,"]<br /><br />accordig to that don't atomic clocks tick slower near the hole? I don't mean to an observer on earth I mean absolutely and truly, time does slow (or possibly stop)<br />near a large hole with sufficient distortion. If we retrieve the clock from that time zone and then study it here on earth, it will remain in the past ...that lost time is real, not just make- believe apparent to some fictitious observer.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Saiph]

correct.<br /><br />However time dilation due to any effect is...well, a real discrepancy. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p align="center"><font color="#c0c0c0"><br /></font></p><p align="center"><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">----</font></em></font><font color="#666699">SaiphMOD@gmail.com </font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">-------------------</font></em></font></p><p><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">"This is my Timey Wimey Detector.  Goes "bing" when there's stuff.  It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually.  I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- </font></em></font><font size="1" color="#999999">The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[nexium]

My guess is 1 George Chapline is is full of BS or 2 blogspot/ Nature/Phillip Ball reported the hypothesis of George Chapline poorly.<br /> I agree that nothing special happens at the event horizon to the people in a space craft. If this is less than a ten solar massblack hole, the space craft, and occupants would have been distroyed before they reached the event horizon and the craft would have insufficiet fuel to escape even if the turned back just before tide force failure several meters short of the event horizon. Neil

 

[new10]

John1R "accordig to that don't atomic clocks tick slower near the hole? I don't mean to an observer on earth I mean absolutely and truly, time does slow (or possibly stop)<br />near a large hole with sufficient distortion. If we retrieve the clock from that time zone and then study it here on earth, it will remain in the past ...that lost time is real, not just make- believe apparent to some fictitious observer. "<br /><br />Ahh... that's a problem, retrieving the clock from a black hole so we can study it and verify the "real" lost time. There's always sometime that keeps making the impossible, well... impossible. It save us from all those conundrums.