Are Black Holes the Source of Dark Energy?

[TimG]

Space.com announced this morning that at least some black holes regularly emit enormous bubbles of hot plasma, as much as 13,000 miles across and travelling at high speeds.  Is this the regular infusion of energy which explains the acceleration of the expansion of space/time?  Seems like the simplest most logical possibility so far. 

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Space.com announced this morning that at least some black holes regularly emit enormous bubbles of hot plasma, as much as 13,000 miles across and travelling at high speeds.&nbsp; Is this the regular infusion of energy which explains the acceleration of the expansion of space/time?&nbsp; Seems like the simplest most logical possibility so far.&nbsp; <br />Posted by TimG</DIV><br /><br />Well, plasma is basically just hot matter, so I don't see how that acellerates the expansion of the Universe itself.</p><p>SDC Article: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/081124-mm-black-hole-bubbles.html</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[michaelmozina]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Space.com announced this morning that at least some black holes regularly emit enormous bubbles of hot plasma, as much as 13,000 miles across and travelling at high speeds.&nbsp; Is this the regular infusion of energy which explains the acceleration of the expansion of space/time?&nbsp; Seems like the simplest most logical possibility so far.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by TimG</DIV></p><p>Not likely.&nbsp; The amount of material and the force of expansions of that material would need to exceed the gravitational attraction of the whole black hole.&nbsp;&nbsp; "Belching" black holes, jets, and material ejections from black holes are generally attributed to events *outside* of the event horizon. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

 

[DrRocket]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Space.com announced this morning that at least some black holes regularly emit enormous bubbles of hot plasma, as much as 13,000 miles across and travelling at high speeds.&nbsp; Is this the regular infusion of energy which explains the acceleration of the expansion of space/time?&nbsp; Seems like the simplest most logical possibility so far.&nbsp; <br />Posted by TimG</DIV></p><p>1.&nbsp; The article is a bit sensational and somewhat misleading.&nbsp; If you read closely you will notice that the plasma comes from the jets that are associated with the black hole and not the black hole itself.&nbsp; Nothing is emitted from a black, with the possible small exception of Hawking radiation (a quantum effect that is still a bit speculative).</p><p>2.&nbsp; Plasma is ordinary matter, ionized gas.&nbsp; It has ordinary energy and ordinary gravity.&nbsp; It is not responsible for the accelerated expansion of the universe, and has nothing to do with dark energy.<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Saiph]

<p>As DrRocket points out, the article is merely commenting on the plasma in the jets of BH's.&nbsp; These derive there energy not from some "dark energy" source, but from a few factors:&nbsp; Conservation of angular momentum, transfer of energy via electrical and magnetic fields, and a "funnelling" effect from the BH's magnetic field.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>What happens is that some matter falls towards the BH at an angle (slightly towards one of the poles, not straight in), and as it falls in it speeds up. &nbsp; It spirals around the BH, falling in and picking up speed, as any object does.&nbsp; The BH is also spinning, and likely has an intense electrical field.&nbsp; This field can act to stir up the matter around it, transfering some energy from the BH's spin, to the motion of the particles around it.&nbsp; I.e. the BH's spin slows down, and the particles can be sped up even more!</p><p>Now, here is where the slight angle part comes in.&nbsp; Since it's comming it at a slight angle, as the orbit tightens the magnetic field acts as a funnel.&nbsp; The fast moving, charged particles are all funneled towards the BH's poles.&nbsp; The faster the particle, the "tighter" the funnel.&nbsp; This means the magnetic field actually selects and channels the highest energy particles!&nbsp; These then reach the pole of the BH where the magnetic field has a "hole" and allows the highly focused particles to escape in a sorta "beam" that's incredibly high in energy.</p><p>The slower moving, or less charged particles are also funneled by the magnetic field btw.&nbsp; They just aren't funneled as much, and can escape at areas before the pole, so they don't get put into the "beam".&nbsp; This can mean they end up in the BH instead of escaping. </p><p>Any particles that are heading straight into the BH are doomed, even with the funneling. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>If you read between the lines above just a little bit you'll notice that particles actually escape the grasp of the BH (before crossing the event horizon of course). &nbsp; A large percentage of matter that gets swept up into the BH's accretion disk actually manages to escape. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p align="center"><font color="#c0c0c0"><br /></font></p><p align="center"><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">----</font></em></font><font color="#666699">SaiphMOD@gmail.com </font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">-------------------</font></em></font></p><p><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">"This is my Timey Wimey Detector.  Goes "bing" when there's stuff.  It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually.  I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- </font></em></font><font size="1" color="#999999">The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[yevaud]

Dark Energy appears to be some sort of expansive force not due to Singularities or Dark Matter.&nbsp; What it is is an intense matter of conjecture, though I myself am holding out for it to be a variation on inflation; perhaps we have entered a new inflationary period?&nbsp; Hard to say. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[qzzq]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> A large percentage of matter that gets swept up into the BH's accretion disk actually manages to escape. <br /> Posted by Saiph</DIV></p><p>What percentage should I be thinking of? Even 10 or 20 % can be large, given certain circumstances. Thanks for the informative post BTW!&nbsp; </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>***</p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>What percentage should I be thinking of? Even 10 or 20 % can be large, given certain circumstances. Thanks for the informative post BTW!&nbsp; <br />Posted by qzzq</DIV><br /><br />I believe it's much higher than that. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[michaelmozina]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I believe it's much higher than that. <br /> Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV></p><p>http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2005/felines/</p><p>I agree.&nbsp; It's not altogether clear to me that a large portion of infalling material even would make it to the event horizon.&nbsp; It would likely be swept up in the material that's moving around the outside of the event horizon. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

 

[qzzq]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2005/felines/I agree.&nbsp; It's not altogether clear to me that a large portion of infalling material even would make it to the event horizon.&nbsp; It would likely be swept up in the material that's moving around the outside of the event horizon. <br /> Posted by michaelmozina</DIV></p><p>So the iron just kept on swirling around the black hole at high speeds an high energy for billions of years...that's simply amazing!</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>***</p> </div>