Atlantis astronaut faints twice post flight....

[farmerman]

Heidemarie has nothing to be ashamed of, I think she was an excellent choice to do the space walks that she did. I think there alot of factors to consider why she passed out, for me the main one did she get enough fluids. One thing all of us need to ask ourselves how often does this still occur and we just don't see it. As far as I'm concerned she performed her mission flawlessly while on orbit and she can hold her head high. I hope that this doesn't effect her chances at another flight. Heidemarie you go girl!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[frodo1008]

The first thing I need to know before I even bother to start any new threads is, should I take my ideas for new forums over to Suggestions and Anouncements? And would you sponcer this idea for such a forum structure to the upper management of space.com?<br /><br />Then if this can't be done, I will start separate threads on each of the excellent points you brought out. Of if it can be done then perhaps the first such forum should be the one on Mars and that is where I would be more than happy to start new threads on the excellent areas of concern that you brought out! <br /><br />It does not matter too much that some of these points have been gone over before, as there are always new developments and new viewpoints.<br /><br />Just as a teaser, I do believe that there are Nuclear Propulsion developments that WILL make a trip to Mars in a fraction of the time that chemical propulsion will do. I am going to do some research in this area and will get back to you on this.<br /><br />I am also fully willing to discuss my reasons for wanting to see a fleet type of approach for Mars exploration.<br /><br />At least I would like to see a new forum on at least Mars (where threads on each of these subjects could be starting threads), and the moon (where there are a whole lot of ideas also). All of these forum ideas do not have to get started at once. Perhaos it might even be possible to place all the former threads of these verious ideas into the proper forume, and this would make looking for such ideas that much simpler for the serious space enthusiast.<br /><br />For instance the many threads on the private development of LEO and other Earth related space stations would then be far more accessable.<br /><br />Once again, would it be feasable and useful for me to place these new forum structure ideas over on Suggestions and Announcements? I don't want to take the time and effort to do this unless it at least stands a chance of serious consideration. I know that you must have contac

 

[MeteorWayne]

My nickel's worth.<br />I'd be leery of creating new forums.<br />Right now the list fits on one page so you can see at a glance where you want to go.<br />I think if you look around you can fit the threads into the existing ones without stretching the definitions too much.<br /><br />Just my opinion. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[vulture2]

Just my opinion, but I would not make to much of this. It is definitely not a new discovery; there have been other cases where astronauts had postflight postural syncope within a day or two of return without arousing any publicity, and it can happen even in well conditioned individuals. One of the ASTP crew collapsed and lost consciousness while shaving! There is variation in how people react to low blood pressure and in some people the pulse slows very suddenly, which can cause fainting. Excercise can help prevent it, but on a busy flight there may not be time. So far as I know postural syncope is not dangerous as long as you sit or lie down as soon as symptoms occur. It is much less likely to occur in the lower gravity on the Moon or Mars. On the Shuttle the crew has anti-G suits which they can use if necessary, and after landing on Earth there are plenty of people around to help.

 

[frodo1008]

Not an unreasonable point. The only problem to me at least is that all of the additional forums that I proposed fall within M&L (they may also fall within other forums such as Astronomy, but a lot of subjects have that happen anyway). So perhaps it might just be possible for the SDC powers that be to possibly form a structure of sub-forums? Something like the tree of folders used in Windows itself?<br /><br />You then go to M&L and when you click to enter that forum, these other sub-forums come up, so you still have only one initial page to have to look at when you go to the message boards, but you get the benefit of having the subjects within M&L quite a bit more organized. And remember I also proposed one such sub-forum as miscellaneous, so that other M&L posts that do not fall within the purview of the sub-forums can still be discussed!<br /><br />This is also just my own opinion, but I did do a preliminary search over on Suggestions and Announcement and found that over a year ago somebody had indeed proposed at least moon and Mars separate forums. But what I feared would also happen to any proposals that I might also make, the subject was ignored!<br /><br />As I stated if the idea would be turned down than I would be happy to start individual threads, but I do think that is inefficient and not as organized as it could be! But I would definitely NOT like the idea to be just ignored! Tell me NO, YES of even we need some time (MAYBE), but don't ignore me!<br /><br />As I don't really want to highjack this thread, this will be my last post here until I can get an answer. I will however, start a thread over on Suggestions and Announcements called:<br />“How about making sub-forums?”<br /><br />Shall we not roll the dice and see what comes of it?<br />

 

[ai_sci]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Just my opinion, but I would not make to much of this. It is definitely not a new discovery; there have been other cases where astronauts had postflight postural syncope within a day or two of return without arousing any publicity, and it can happen even in well conditioned individuals. One of the ASTP crew collapsed and lost consciousness while shaving! There is variation in how people react to low blood pressure and in some people the pulse slows very suddenly, which can cause fainting. Excercise can help prevent it, but on a busy flight there may not be time. So far as I know postural syncope is not dangerous as long as you sit or lie down as soon as symptoms occur. It is much less likely to occur in the lower gravity on the Moon or Mars. On the Shuttle the crew has anti-G suits which they can use if necessary, and after landing on Earth there are plenty of people around to help.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote> <br />This post is spot-on. Having worked with astronauts in research with altered-g environments, I can tell you that this sort of response is more common than might be expected. Also, astronauts, like military pilots (as many of them are), are notoriously private when it comes to medical history and events that might affect their flight status, so the general public will not hear about it often. But it does happen, and past history and experience really does not predict who might suffer from it post-flight. It goes away after a few days.<br /><br />AI Sci <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[ai_sci]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>"One of the ASTP crew collapsed and lost consciousness while shaving!"<br /><br />That was because all three breathed nitrogentertaoxide vapors ( the RCS oxidizer) during the entry because of a missed switch in the cockit, not the result of zero G.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote> Thanks, S_G, I had forgotten about that one, but as you said, that was not due to orthostatic g adaptation effects.<br /><br />AI Sci <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[ai_sci]

More info on the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project, sort of off-topic: <br /><br />ASTP<br /><br />AI Sci <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[scottb50]

I think it makes the most sense to use multiple automonous vehicles that can dock to one another enroute. In the event of a problem they could separate as needed. <br /><br />The idea I have is multiple connecting Modules. A vehicle consists of a central Module with eight radial Modules and four outer Modules. All the Modules are identical but can be configured as needed. By rotating around the central core the outer Modules would have gravity that could be controlled by the rate of rotation.<br /><br />Since the Modules are identical you could attach any number of vehicles together end to end. A Mars ship would be three vehicles docked to each other, each vehicle sent on it's way seperately and joining in transit. Once at Mars the entire assembly is taken apart, with some Modules taken to the surface and others staying in orbit. <br /><br />If we use empty second stage propellant tanks as our Modules and identical Modules to carry payloads attached to those tanks, when they are launched, each vehicle would take five launches if you consider the equipment to outfit the empty propellant tanks and the crew. Figuring two empty Modules and one payload Module for each launch with each payload Module having the ability to carry the equipment to outfit two others, five launches would assemble, outfit and man a single vehicle. Spread the construction phase over a couple of years and put the Crew up in a single launch.<br /><br />Figured into the vehicles would be propellant, this could be launched to LEO by any number of means, as water, in the course of construction. Each of the three initial vehicles would have a Command Module, a Mars Surface Module, a Mars orbiting Station Module, five cargo Modules and five water Modules. <br /><br />The initial return to LEO would use two vehicles, with seven Module each, a Command Module, two cargo Modules and five water Modules.<br /><br /><br />Beyond the intitial mission the core vehicles would be two indentical vehicles, using the initial Co <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Didn't one of them have to have surgery later to remove lung lesions as a result?<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Hi Frodo<br /><br />I don't think SDC is quite ready for all those Mars fora <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />But I think a thread about "Problems and solutions for missions to Mars" is an excellent idea.<br /><br />Of my itemised points, I suggest that 1 (Nuclear propulsion), 2 (Zero gravity), and 3 (Radiation) have been extensively discussed in the past. <br /><br />However point 4 (Number of spacecraft) I think is extremely interesting and has not really been explored much, and could include aspects of point 5 as well (in von Braun heritage). Item 5 (Cost) is fairly rubbery, but it might be worth trying to narrow down possibilities. The last point, 7 (the role of the Moon in preparing for Mars) could be interesting as well.<br /><br />Do want to start these as separate threads, or as separate posts within "Problems and solutions for missions to Mars"?<br /><br />Jon<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[mattblack]

>>Didn't one of them have to have surgery later to remove lung lesions as a result?<<<br /><br />Deke Slayton did. <br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>One Percent of Federal Funding For Space: America <strong><em><u>CAN</u></em></strong> Afford it!!  LEO is a <strong><em>Prison</em></strong> -- It's time for a <em><strong>JAILBREAK</strong></em>!!</p> </div>

 

[frodo1008]

I would make the comment that the general press never seems to be educated enough about such technicalities, or worse while they do know the truth they prefer the sensationalism that such ignorance could generate! Evil NASA wouldn't let her see a doctor!<br /><br />But neither ignorance nor sensationalism is an excuse for such poor journalism (and jounalism is what the press is supposed to be good at)!

 

[frodo1008]

I think from what my initial thread over at Suggestions and Announcements has brought forth (although it is early yet) that you are correct. As I then posted in that thread I do think it to be somewhat amazing (I think I said silly) that the relatively complex but older technology of programming operating systems allows for multiple folders for computer files (and organizational plus to my way of thinking at least), while the much newer internet does not? I didn't think that just the programming to do this would be so very complex as to be beyond the capabilities of the programming people at space.com! An organization that should be cutting edge!<br /><br />What I did think however, was that then organizing and placing all the older threads (I erred when I said posts earlier) into the proper sub-forums would be the truly difficult part! Oh well, I guess the idea isn't going to even get to bat, let alone first base!<br /><br />One of the major areas that any truly complex operation must have to be profitable is good organization (such as the one that I was in that built most of the rocket engines for the American space effort)! <br /><br />There are several items that somewhat put off somebody such as myself on these boards. There is the divisive political nature of some of even the most technically neutral subjects here that then sometimes generates a great deal of nastiness in people!<br /><br />The other is the seeming lack of any kind of reasonable organization to these boards! As you say some of these subjects have already been covered. Although trying to find and go through all the threads and posts on this kind of thing can be far more time consuming that I want it to be! With a better organization, at least an area for "Mars" for instance, this time could then be cut by a considerable margin!<br /><br />Oh well......<br /><br />So I will start threads on the excellent points that you and I have come up with, even those that have been covered before as there may

 

[qso1]

frodo1008:<br />The other is the seeming lack of any kind of reasonable organization to these boards! As you say some of these subjects have already been covered. Although trying to find and go through all the threads and posts on this kind of thing can be far more time consuming that I want it to be! With a better organization, at least an area for "Mars" for instance, this time could then be cut by a considerable margin!<br /><br />Me:<br />Just a thought, maybe it should be in suggestions but, what about a Table Of Contents (TOC) page with the threads listed and linked? Is there a way to have an automated one? One that dosn't have to be manually updated everytime a new thread appears? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[ai_sci]

Hi Newsartist! Not much time to post these days, but: <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><br />You might care to elaborate on the medical situation alluded to in the press, (and here,) where she was released after "only" seeing a Flight Surgeon.<br /><br />The word "Doctor" never appeared in that conversation, but it should be noted that Flight Surgeons ARE doctors who specialize in exactly that type of situation.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote> Right you are, a Flight Surgeon is a medical doctor with additional training in Aerospace Medicine. At least in the Navy, they also get flight training, and have to log monthly flight time to maintain currency.<br /><br />Those so-called "NASA officials" escorting her out of the hanger? The guy with the black shirt was the Flight Surgeon. The guy in the white shirt was a paramedic. I would say that she was well looked after.<br /><br />AI Sci <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[ai_sci]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>"..."Didn't one of them have to have surgery later to remove lung lesions as a result? "..."<br /><br />Yes, Deke did for sure, possibly the others later.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote> From the link to the ASTP story above:<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Failure to throw the ELS switches led to an unanticipated two-week hospital stay for the crew in Honolulu. For Slayton, it also meant the discovery of a small lesion on his left lung and an exploratory operation that indicated it was a non-malignant tumor. After a short convalescence, Slayton joined the other four ASTP flyers for two tours, one of the Soviet Union and one of the United States. Despite a grueling month on the road, neither Slayton nor his team mates seemed any the worse for wear...<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /> <br /><br />AI Sci <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>