Big Bang... (filter bypass removed)

MartinTimothy · Jan 8, 2009

Hi gang... the name is Martin Timothy I live in Brisbane Australia, this is my first post here, registering, loggin' on then waiting for the upload then for the edit function, was about as much fun as last year's trip to the all night dentist!! Big Bangers are all idiots and stretcher case retards, whose impetus is the dumbing down of America.Look at deep fields obtained by Edwin Hubble in the 1950’s, with the two hundred inch Hale telescope at Mount Palomar, for clear vision of galaxies extending as far as the eye can see. Some appear to exist in a swarm around the sub cluster at the heart of the Virgo cluster of galaxies, that includes the massive elliptical galaxy M87, which has a jet of material streaming from its core, others are in streamers and wisps of galaxies extending outward, until their images are no more than pin pricks. When the spectra of these galaxies was analyzed, it was found that the absorption lines of all the common elements were shifted toward the red end of the spectrum, this is called redshift, the furthest ones away, attested to by the small width of their image on the photographic plates, all had greater RS than their closer counterparts whose images subtended a greater angle. Now see later images obtained with better more sensitive instruments, and see the tendrils and filaments of high RS galaxies extend to the resolving limit of the telescope, the more distant edge on spiral galaxies recognized as a central bulge, with two pointy bits extending about twice as far on the same axis, these galaxies are vastly more distant than Hubble’s, and yet they are in the same advanced stages of evolution as the MW. Now space based and adaptive optic instruments have extended the visual limit even further, and still the same clear space and edge on spirals at the visual limit, here RS is approaching twelve, which puts their rate of recession well into the superluminal category, which means faster than the speed of light, yet they are goin’ about their own business, the same as around here. Expanding the images further for faint blobs of light, which are galaxies ever further away in every direction, and see them as neurons in the brain of God, which is meant in no evangelical sense, it just seems the best way to describe it.Redshift is an artifact of distance, the fact that M31, the relatively nearby Andromeda Galaxy has blueshift, is because it is gravitationally bound together with the other galaxies in the local group. M 31 and the Milky Way or home galaxy, will eventually expand to become elliptical galaxies, making a subcluster typically seen in the middle of larger galaxy clusters, nearby NGC 5128, called Centarus A is presently undergoing that process. Those who cackle on about the age of the universe expressed as a percentage of it’s present age, say redshift indicates the universe is expanding after the explosion of a primal atom, that accordingly could only have been located right where good ol’ Earth is today, the Big Bang hypothesis. A class of object called a BL Lacerta object has no redshift, and remains a pinprick of light on even the deepest fields, is thought to be a tunnel shot of the energy beam from the active nucleus of a quasar, modern binocular, space based and image stabilized telescopes, have identified a rim of matter surrounding some of the BL Lacerta points of light, which does exhibit redshift, supporting that hypothesis. Thus viewing a distant galaxy, with a redshift of eight, between here and there is another galaxy with a RS of four, indicating it was speeding toward the more distant place, thus from the more distant galaxy, our galaxy the Milky Way would similarly have a RS of eight, so too would the intervening galaxy viewed from the more distant place have a RS of four, indicating it was speeding toward us at a pretty good clip. So it can not be speeding in both directions, can it now... when confronted with that, the Big Bangers start on about balloons, and expanding space, forget about balloons and expansion, Hubble was said to be a dictator, and the only person other than him who was allowed to look thru the two hundred inch Hale Telescope on Mount Palomar, was a mule skinner named Milton Humason, Hubble and Milt cooked up the Expanding Universe theory between the two of them, which is just so much hot air. Assume that most spiral galaxies that look the same are roughly the same size!!  As distance reduces the linear dimension constantly, so too does redshift increase in proportion, thus a spiral galaxy that is one degree across, will be twice as distant as another that is two degrees across, similarly one that is half of one degree wide will be twice as far as the first, and four times further than the other. Blue shift is observable in the discs of rotating galaxies, thus the light from a distant galaxy will exhibit mean redshift in proportion to its linear distance, expanding the image further, as rotation brings parts toward us, they will be slightly blue shifted back toward the norm, similarly as rotation takes objects away, their light will be shifted so slightly even further toward the red part of the spectrum. The Hubble Space Telescope went into orbit with an incorrectly ground primary mirror, B’s of D’s were invested in building, storing and testing the HST prior to launch, and nobody had checked to see if the primary mirror was going to work. Where did the money go, spammers will tell you about what a great asset, and what a grand piece of hardware it is, it is not it is a piece of junk. Who got the HST money, as well and the trillions missing from the Pentagon revealed September 10 2001.Do not remove moderator edits!If you remove this edit I will close the thread.edited (again) by rubicondsrv 8:15 pm cst

BoJangles · Jan 8, 2009

This smells of a conspiracy theory.Though entertaining none the less <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> -------------- Let me start out with the standard disclaimer ... I am an idiot, I know almost nothing, I haven’t taken calculus, I don’t work for NASA, and I am one-quarter Bulgarian sheep dog. With that out of the way, I have several stupid questions... *** A few months blogging can save a few hours in research *** </div>

MartinTimothy · Jan 8, 2009

Since I put this story together the best shot of NGC 253 has disappeared from APOD, although there could be another explanation, I believe it was done in an attempt to refute this story, and to contribute to the "dumbing down" of mankind, which is a world wide phenomena. Download NGC 253, a spiral galaxy in the constellation Sculptor, thought to be between eight and thirteen million light years distant, from APOD Astronomy Picture of the day, crop the image to 1359 x 1037 pixels centered on the brightest part of the galaxy, and extending as far as a cluster of emission nebulae, the red bits in the disc of the galaxy, in the lower right hand corner and to similar emission nebulae left upper. www.imagehosting.com/]

[/url] So we want to find out more… Pythagoras told us the square on the hypotenuse, is the sum of the square of the other two sides, we want to know the measurement of the hypotenuse which is the straight line opposite the right angle, here represented by the square corners provided courtesy of Microsoft Picture Manager. 1359 squared is 1846881 ...1037 squared is 1075369, add the upper and lower and get 2922250, find the square root is 1709, thus the Galaxy subtends an angle of 1709 pixels, rounded out to 1700. We want to know that, because there are two more distant spiral galaxies located below right of center in the same shot, fortunately both are nearly upright, which makes it easier to guage their width, the lower and smaller of the two fits quite neatly in a square box 14 X 14 pixels, the larger is little longer than fourteen pixels call it 16, then for the sake of simplicity we add another pixel to get 17. Dividing that by the angle of 1700 subtended by the much closer NGC 253, and find that the more distant galaxy is around one hundred times smaller, we are gonna say it is similarly one hundred times more distant, published literature says NGC 253 is between eight million and thirteen million light years away, for the purpose of this treatise we are gonna say nine million, which puts the distant galaxy around nine hundred million light years away, multiply that sum by 365.24 x 24 x 60 x 60 x 186,000 for miles. We got the figures by finding that NGC 253 is 1700 pixels across, and larger of the two more distant galaxies is one hundred times smaller at seventeen pixels, the smaller of the two is somewhere around fourteen pixels across, however since it was less than that we do some more calculus, as each pixel is taken away, so does the distance increase, should it become eight and one half pixels, the distance would be eighteen hundred million light years. Since it was not that small, we will say half way between seventeen and eight and a half, so add four and a quarter pixels for an image half as wide again of twelve and three quarter pixels, a fair total... then for a place that is similarly halfway between the upper and lower limits, go to a distance half way between at 1350 million light years. So far we are getting a handle on the scale of the universe, exactly the same principle applies locally. Space based telescopes give one hundred and thirty degrees as the longitudinal dimension of the Milky Way, published data says NGC 253 is nearly one half degree long, for our purpose we calculate that as half a degree, because once we divide it by the one thirty degrees of the Milky Way, we are gonna get two hundred and sixty, if we had been finicky with it all we would have rounded it out to that sum anyway. That means that the Milky Way is two hundred and sixty times closer than NGC 253, nine million divided by two sixty, is thirty four thousand two hundred and twenty, which in this model, is how many light years the Earth Sun system is from the center of the home, or Milky Way galaxy. However that is not the end of the matter... Published data for the distance to NGC 253 goes from nine million LY up to just under thirteen million LY, radio data from Sagittarius A* recognized as the heart of the MW galaxy, has returned a distance of 24250 light years, NGC 253 is two hundred and sixty times further away, multiply the distance to A* by 260, and get 6,305 000 LY, less than half the top estimate given by Wikipedia. Use that figure to bring the distant side on galaxy on the same plate as NGC 253, in from 1350 million LY, to 945.75 million LY’s.FAQ's: ...How can you say that all spiral galaxies are the same size?? The the MW galaxy has the same overall profile as many similar disc galaxies, including NGC 253, ie an active center and emission nebulae spaced similar distances apart, less active and smaller galaxies have less active profiles, while spherical galaxies fall into a different category altogether, neither classes of object should be mistaken for anything else. In the case of the two smaller, thus more distant galaxies in the above example, each pixel of image width is equal to around one hundred and six million light years in linear distance, which is why we disregard the differences in size of similar distant edge on spiral galaxies, and assume they are at a given mean. Using the best estimates of the MW galaxy, which say it is one hundred thousand light years across as our yard stick, which rounds out the whole system. We would be speaking in terms of thousandths of a pixel in image width, were we to locate the true size of distant galaxies!! There is a critter called a Dwarf Spiral that can trip you up, however all calculations should be accompanied by redshift data, which will expose any of those that are trying to sneak onto the main list, another is Malin 1 named after its discoverer David Malin, who similarly revolutionized astronomical photography in the 1970's and 80's, which does not fit into this scheme, however Malin 1 objects are very rare and seldom encountered, and in any case redshift data would instantly expose them for what they are!! The MW is surrounded by star clouds, which formed in emission nebulae at the tidal boundary of the galaxy, the gravity source can not keep the disc stable outwardly for ever, and bits will spin off and go their own way at that place, they keep expanding and eventually drift away into inter galactic space, this is the physical force that makes all similar disc galaxies the same size give or take!! See compressed matter in the arms of spiral galaxies expanding in emission nebulae, globules of stars resembling bunches of grapes, form as the hole matter expands, see file material and very rare photo’s, the individual grapes become individual stars, see the Pleiades, as expansion continues some groups will remain held together forming star systems. www.imagehosting.com/]

[/url] The above pic shows the relationships in the Milky Way family!! How likely is it that globular clusters are juvenile galaxies? Probably unlikely, in this model the compressed matter in the spiral arms expands in emission nebulae, to form stars and globular clusters that drift to stations above and below the disc, as the spiral evolves into an ellipse. The globular clusters form a placenta, that effectively shields the galaxy from radiation, and a buffer zone against collisions and impacts with other galaxies. So galaxies calve? Sure they do, look for rare shots of spidery looking juvenile galaxies drifting away from parent bodies!! www.imagehosting.com/]

[/url] The pic is galaxy M 32 the closest major galaxy in the constellation Andromeda, not counting Dwingeloo 1 a much closer galaxy that has been radio located directly opposite the nucleus of the MW, thus it remains invisible from Earth. The fuzzy blob below right center of M32 is satellite galaxy M 31, the large blob in the disc slightly below left center is M 110, both could be embryo galaxies that will expand as a child galaxies of M32!! www.imagehosting.com/]

[/url] Omega Centauri called NGC 5694 is an embryo galaxy of the Milky Way, it has no active nucleus, so it is unlikely to change, it could start spinning and flatten into a disc, then might drift away as a low surface brightness galaxy. LSB galaxies are very numerous and collisions between them are frequent, they do not show up at all on most conventional photo’s, their presence was only revealed after large numbers of blue arcs centered on super massive elliptical galaxies, turned up on deep field shots, so astronomers started looking for more and found millions, near and far. During this collision phase if two colliding members are compatible, they combine then rapidly evolve into an active disc as the nascent black holes lurking at the heart of both respond, then reproduce. What happens next?? The active nucleus of spiral galaxies like the MW and M32, expand and gather all the dust and debris in the galaxy then contract into a very dense center, the material goes into the torus, the donut of swirling dust and shattered stars that insulates the central surrounds of the black hole, or cluster of BH’s at the center of the galaxy. www.imagehosting.com/]

[/url] Centaurus A an exploding galaxy in that constellation, thought to be about twenty six million light years distant, appears to be presently undergoing that process. Astrometry data is essential, so has it been hijacked by NASA and JPL, whose joint purpose has itself been hijacked by defense, which has been hijacked by hijackers who run government, who employ hijackers to hijack hard evidence and true science. They try to sell their version back to the public in books and publications, with Saganesque data about cannibal galaxies, and wanna tell you, “…well there was this Big Bang,” there was no BB, man is gonna plunge back into the age of ignorance, while it remains the province of the select few, with the right security clearance, to get an education. With good sky maps available, that have photographs and catalogs of deep fields, and astrometry, radio locating and red shift data, it does not take long to figure it all out, the data that is released is most often too raw, with dazzling columns of figures and seemingly contradictory terms, it is seldom in a form that can be used for home astrometry, the photographs and charts they reproduce never have grid markers, so scale always remains a mystery. This thread commenced at NGC 253 and was intended to refute the claim that the universe is expanding after the explosion of a primal atom, evidenced by Redshift which Big Bangers say shows the velocity of physical recession, which true science recognizes as an artifact of distance. Nowhere do distant galaxies show evidence that they are fall out from an explosion, there is no trail of smoking debris like there was at the WTC on 911, which was from a genuine big bang, nor do they appear to be doing anything except drifting about a bit, until they establish stable orbits with other members in their group.

rubicondsrv · Jan 8, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>. Posted by MartinTimothy</DIV>I have removed the filter bypass from the thread title.further infractions could result in sanctions being levied aganst you.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

Boris_Badenov · Jan 8, 2009

<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/1/dc616319-e82d-4716-b130-97e119f299fe.Medium.gif" alt="" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div> </div>

rubicondsrv · Jan 8, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> Posted by boris1961</DIV> borris & manwhore please edit your post titles and remove the filter bypass whenever you get a chance.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

DrRocket · Jan 8, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>borris & manwhore please edit your post titles and remove the filter bypass whenever you get a chance.  Posted by rubicondsrv</DIV>This thread really belongs in The Unexplained.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

rubicondsrv · Jan 8, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>This thread really belongs in The Unexplained.  Posted by DrRocket</DIV> truealthough It almost went in the trash when I saw the original title. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

DrRocket · Jan 8, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>truealthough It almost went in the trash when I saw the original title. Posted by rubicondsrv</DIV>You know, I just ran a short test here (that post was quickly deleted) and I don't think there was a filter bypass.  The filter does not stop the word in question.  The subterfuge used was not really needed. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

a_lost_packet_ · Jan 8, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi gang... the name is Martin Timothy I live in Brisbane Australia, this is my first post here, registering, loggin' on then waiting for the upload then for the edit function, was about as much fun as last year's trip to the all night dentist!!Big Bangers are all idiots and stretcher case retards, whose impetus is the dumbing down of America.Look at deep fields obtained by Edwin Hubble in the 1950’s, with the two hundred inch Hale telescope at Mount Palomar, for clear vision of galaxies extending as far as the eye can see. Some appear to exist in a swarm around the sub cluster at the heart of the Virgo cluster of galaxies, that includes the massive elliptical galaxy M87, which has a jet of material streaming from its core, others are in streamers and wisps of galaxies extending outward, until their images are no more than pin pricks. When the spectra of these galaxies was analyzed, it was found that the absorption lines of all the common elements were shifted toward the red end of the spectrum, this is called redshift, the furthest ones away, attested to by the small width of their image on the photographic plates, all had greater RS than their closer counterparts whose images subtended a greater angle.Now see later images obtained with better more sensitive instruments, and see the tendrils and filaments of high RS galaxies extend to the resolving limit of the telescope, the more distant edge on spiral galaxies recognized as a central bulge, with two pointy bits extending about twice as far on the same axis, these galaxies are vastly more distant than Hubble’s, and yet they are in the same advanced stages of evolution as the MW.Now space based and adaptive optic instruments have extended the visual limit even further, and still the same clear space and edge on spirals at the visual limit, here RS is approaching twelve, which puts their rate of recession well into the superluminal category, which means faster than the speed of light, yet they are goin’ about their own business, the same as around here.Expanding the images further for faint blobs of light, which are galaxies ever further away in every direction, and see them as neurons in the brain of God, which is meant in no evangelical sense, it just seems the best way to describe it.Redshift is an artifact of distance, the fact that M31, the relatively nearby Andromeda Galaxy has blueshift, is because it is gravitationally bound together with the other galaxies in the local group. M 31 and the Milky Way or home galaxy, will eventually expand to become elliptical galaxies, making a subcluster typically seen in the middle of larger galaxy clusters, nearby NGC 5128, called Centarus A is presently undergoing that process.Those who cackle on about the age of the universe expressed as a percentage of it’s present age, say redshift indicates the universe is expanding after the explosion of a primal atom, that accordingly could only have been located right where good ol’ Earth is today, the Big Bang hypothesis.A class of object called a BL Lacerta object has no redshift, and remains a pinprick of light on even the deepest fields, is thought to be a tunnel shot of the energy beam from the active nucleus of a quasar, modern binocular, space based and image stabilized telescopes, have identified a rim of matter surrounding some of the BL Lacerta points of light, which does exhibit redshift, supporting that hypothesis.Thus viewing a distant galaxy, with a redshift of eight, between here and there is another galaxy with a RS of four, indicating it was speeding toward the more distant place, thus from the more distant galaxy, our galaxy the Milky Way would similarly have a RS of eight, so too would the intervening galaxy viewed from the more distant place have a RS of four, indicating it was speeding toward us at a pretty good clip.So it can not be speeding in both directions, can it now... when confronted with that, the Big Bangers start on about balloons, and expanding space, forget about balloons and expansion, Hubble was said to be a dictator, and the only person other than him who was allowed to look thru the two hundred inch Hale Telescope on Mount Palomar, was a mule skinner named Milton Humason, Hubble and Milt cooked up the Expanding Universe theory between the two of them, which is just so much hot air.Assume that most spiral galaxies that look the same are roughly the same size!!  As distance reduces the linear dimension constantly, so too does redshift increase in proportion, thus a spiral galaxy that is one degree across, will be twice as distant as another that is two degrees across, similarly one that is half of one degree wide will be twice as far as the first, and four times further than the other.Blue shift is observable in the discs of rotating galaxies, thus the light from a distant galaxy will exhibit mean redshift in proportion to its linear distance, expanding the image further, as rotation brings parts toward us, they will be slightly blue shifted back toward the norm, similarly as rotation takes objects away, their light will be shifted so slightly even further toward the red part of the spectrum. The Hubble Space Telescope went into orbit with an incorrectly ground primary mirror, B’s of D’s were invested in building, storing and testing the HST prior to launch, and nobody had checked to see if the primary mirror was going to work. Where did the money go, spammers will tell you about what a great asset, and what a grand piece of hardware it is, it is not it is a piece of junk. Who got the HST money, as well and the trillions missing from the Pentagon revealed September 10 2001.Do not remove moderator edits!If you remove this edit I will close the thread.edited (again) by rubicondsrv 8:15 pm cst Posted by MartinTimothy</DIV>No. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

rubicondsrv · Jan 8, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>You know, I just ran a short test here (that post was quickly deleted) and I don't think there was a filter bypass.  The filter does not stop the word in question.  The subterfuge used was not really needed. Posted by DrRocket</DIV> I thought I added that one to the list..I will need to fix that.however on the list or not it is still not allowed and the subtrifuge indicates that the poster knows this. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

Mee_n_Mac · Jan 8, 2009

OK, I lost my longer post due to the thread move so I'll harp on these 2 points ... Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Thus viewing a distant galaxy, with a redshift of eight, between here and there is another galaxy with a RS of four, indicating it was speeding toward the more distant place, thus from the more distant galaxy, our galaxy the Milky Way would similarly have a RS of eight, so too would the intervening galaxy viewed from the more distant place have a RS of four, indicating it was speeding toward us at a pretty good clip.</DIV>Huh ?  Let's simplify it for you.  10 miles away I have a car doing 50 mph in a direction directly away from me.  20 miles away I have another car doing 100 mph, in the same direction as the 1'st car.  Nobody is speeding towards us (or anyone else), not even if you look at it from the far car's perspective and have us doing -100 mph away from it (and thus the other car doing -50 mph).  Somehow I think you know this though ...  Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>So it can not be speeding in both directions, can it now... when confronted with that, the Big Bangers start on about balloons, and expanding space, forget about balloons and expansion, Hubble was said to be a dictator, and the only person other than him who was allowed to look thru the two hundred inch Hale Telescope on Mount Palomar, was a mule skinner named Milton Humason, Hubble and Milt cooked up the Expanding Universe theory between the two of them, which is just so much hot air.</DIV>So now that we know that the galaxy in question isn't "speeding in both directions", what's the "hot air" ?  Does the ad hominem against Hubble help in any way the factual matters at hand ?  If the Big Bang is wrong about redshift, what's your explanation for it ?  For extra credit add in your explanation for the time dilation measurements of the SN1a light curves. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> -----------------------------------------------------Ask not what your Forum Software can do do on you,Ask it to, please for the love of all that's Holy, STOP ! </div>

doublehelix · Jan 9, 2009

Comments like this:  "Big Bangers are all idiots and stretcher case retards" is not acceptable.  Please do not be abusive like this again.-dh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> doublehelix, Community Manager Imaginova </div>

DrRocket · Jan 9, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Comments like this:  "Big Bangers are all idiots and stretcher case retards" is not acceptable.  Please do not be abusive like this again.-dh Posted by doublehelix</DIV>Considering the source, I took that as a compliment. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

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