Bigelow: accelerate straight to Sundancer

[Boris_Badenov]

On the inside too. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Inside 2. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Inside 3. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Inside 4. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[docm]

Propulsion bus & hub without modules <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[docm]

And this is a magged view of a propulsion bus extracted from another image. Notice anything? How about what looks like landing gear and <i>two</i> nozzles; one at the end and one pointing <i>down</i> as if for landing. <br /><br />The landing bus for the lunar base module(s) Bigelow talked about on Cosmic Log? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[docm]

And once it gets there it looks like a crawler/platform with elevating mounts can provide support even on irregular terrain....probably after being hoisted by those cranes in Boris's image. Keeps it off the regolith too. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[thereiwas]

Take a look at the cover of Kim Stanley Robinson's book Red Mars. (link here) See those cylindrical units formed into rings? In the novel, those are adapted from used shuttle external tanks. That whole ship carried 100 <i>settlers</i> to Mars, with agriculture, etc. It spins on its long axis for gravity.<br /><br />Now downsize it a bit. Use BA330's instead of shuttle tanks, and not so many rings, but more units per ring because BA330's are relatively stubby.

 

[docm]

See that's the thing; design hubs with different angles between the ports, possibly with port extensions (basically tubes), and most any arrangement is possible. <br /><br />Hell, with port extensions the current 90 deg. hub might be used to build something like Borg cubes <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Let's hope Bigelow succeeds. If he does then it could revolutionize space design. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[symbolite]

I wish best of luck to Bigelow, i got excited reading that article. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[holmec]

Wow! That looks great. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[Huntster]

Given the wide variety of layout possibilities, I wonder if any design consideration being given for dropping solar and thermal arrays from the modules themselves and placing them into dedicated arrays elsewhere. It seems this would be necessary if the modules were to be used for anything but the existing "radiating node" arrangement. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[docm]

Some of their imagery shows just such an arrangement, so it's likely there will be a variant set up for external power. It would seem the 'moon base' Bigelow discussed in his Cosmic Log interview would require that arrangement.<br /><br />The 'crawler' image is from 2001, long before Bigelow bought the NASA Trans Hab patents, so they've been thinking about their plans for a long time. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Huntster]

Given that those moonbase images also don't show any solar arrays, and that the base would spend half its time with only Earthshine (at best), I'm making a guess that they are banking on nuclear power being made available. Would an array of Radioisotope thermoelectric generators like that used in Cassini be adequate, or would something more powerful be needed?<br /><br />Forgive me if all this is a rehash.<br /><br />On a somewhat side-note, I've spent all my time thus far working with existent data for the Wikipedia articles. I'd like to include some future possibilities on the main BA article, but I personally haven't found much beyond general mentions of wanting to be moon-capable. Might you have some news articles squirreled away regarding the possibilities discussed/shown above? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[docm]

These should get you started, especially regarding the moonbase.<br /><br />Bigelows Cosmic Log interview (moonbase)....<br /><br />Bigelow on The Space Show (Aug '06, so timetables are accelerated from then)<br /><br />Yell if you need images as I have more than what's been posted. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Huntster]

Thanks, I'll start research on my BA article rewrite tonight, hopefully. We'll see what I can come up with, at least in a preliminary sense. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[pmn1]

Out of interest, if there had been the will to do so, when is the earliest a bigelow style module could have been used? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[dragon04]

<font color="yellow">f this system holds up it could also revolutionize spaceship construction. I can easily see a BA-330 as the hab and Sundancer as the command module for manned Mars missions, and beyond. This would allow the RV to be made in minimalist fashion, like Soyuz, further lightening the mission.<br /><br />The potential upside to this tech is nothing short of enormous.</font><br /><br />At first, I was <b>very</b> skeptical of Space Balloons. I never really commented on it, but to be honest, I thought it was a joke. A mockery of "real" spaceflight.<br /><br />Boy was I wrong. I don't know the particulars, but I <b>do</b> know that getting the least mass into space that will do the same job as "conventional" vehicles/habs is pretty darned exciting.<br /><br />I wonder though..... Is there data to support a "Bigelow Ship"'s ability to withstand the stresses of acceleration and deceleration in terms of Lunar or interplanetary missions?<br /><br />IIRC, the Apollo missions incurred up to 11 G's during Lunar orbit insertion.<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[holmec]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Out of interest, if there had been the will to do so, when is the earliest a bigelow style module could have been used?<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />I heard there was an interest to test one on the ISD. That's before Bigelow got the rights to the design. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[thereiwas]

No particular reason to accelerate that hard on interplanetary missions.<br /><br />Total mass of the Apollo command, service and lunar modules was about 45,000 kg. Main engine thrust 98 kN (from wikipedia). That gives an acceleration of 2.1 m/s/s, or about a quarter G. <br /><br />Deceleration on entering the Earth atmosphere on return from the moon was higher, but still not 11G.<br /><br />The first Soyuz TMA-1 reentry had something go wrong with its guidance and it reentered too steeply on a ballistic path. I think they got close to 11G on that one.

 

[docm]

Let's not forget that the full-sized Bigelow modules are not all "balloon", they have central box core extending between both bulkheads with cross members along the way. Cargo, mission gear etc. could be launched stowed in the core then deployed/assembled in orbit after expansion. <br /><br />Found the patent for the multi-section box beams that run lengthwise, and they're also planned to carry the electrics, plumbing etc. in the sections. The cross members are of a different design. Nice for installing dividers, rack mounts etc. that need hard point mounting.<br /><br />This kind of box frame structure is very, <b><i>very</i></b> strong, so using these modules for spacecraft should present no structural problems at all..<br /><br />The images below show the beam plan in the patent and the core assembled in one of their mock-ups. <br /><br />Interesting that Bigelow is a builder by trade because metal beam construction is becoming popular for pre-fab & home construction in some areas. It's used instead of wood for framing walls, framing doors and sometimes the structure itself. I've used it several times myself for framing walls. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[docm]

Labeled pic of a core.... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[docm]

Core & bulkheads.... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Do you know if the interior has to be assembled by hand? Or is it set up to deploy when inflated? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[docm]

<font color="yellow">Do you know if the interior has to be assembled by hand? Or is it set up to deploy when inflated? </font><br /><br />AFAIK anything destined to be outside the core has to be assembled, save for any walls and what fold-away stuff is attached to it. Given how pre-fab stuff is developing that might not take so long as one would expect. <br /><br />Some "room" dividers may even just be fiberglass fabric with pockets that attaches where ever and folds with the structure, that or it just snaps or Velcros in place. That's what I would do.<br /><br />As someone who builds cabinetry as a hobby foldaway designs have come a long way in the last few years, to the point where a portable desk can fold into a very small space then 'deploy' in a minute, rigid as hell. You see basic forms of this in campers, subs and other military vessels.<br /><br />I can just imagine what his crew could do using polymers. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>