Boeing announces F-15 Silent Eagle

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

docm

Guest
I'd love to see a cost/benefit analysis of the F-15SE vs. the USAF version of the F-35 Lightning II.

Link....

Boeing unveils F-15 Silent Eagle configuration

March 18, 2009 The Boeing Company has unveiled the F-15 Silent Eagle (F-15SE), a new F-15 configuration designed with a range of improvements over the previous F-15 variants including improved stealth coatings, redesigned conformal fuel tanks, a canted vertical tail to improve aerodynamic efficiency and much more. The prototype will be ready for its first test flight in early 2010.

The F-15SE is a new configuration from the stables of the well known F-15E Strike Eagle, a 1980s American all-weather strike fighter, designed for long-range action against targets deep behind enemy lines. The Strike Eagle proved its worth in Desert Storm carrying out deep strikes against high valued targets, combat air patrols and providing close air support for coalition troops.

"The F-15 Silent Eagle is designed to meet our international customers' anticipated need for cost-effective stealth technologies, as well as for large and diverse weapons payloads," said Mark Bass, F-15 Program vice president for Boeing. "The innovative Silent Eagle is a balanced, affordable approach designed to meet future survivability needs."

Improvements over previous F-15 variants

Improvements in stealth over previous F-15 variants include coatings and treatments on the aircraft and there has also been a redesign of the conformal fuel tanks (CFTs) that allow for internal weapons carriage, says Boeing. Depending on the specific mission, the customer can use the CFTs that are designed for internal carriage or change back to the traditional CFTs for optimum fuel capacity and external weapons carriage.

The Silent Eagle will be able to internally carry air-to-air missiles such as the AIM-9 and AIM-120 and air-to-ground weapons such as the Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) and Small Diameter Bomb (SDB). The standard weapons load used on current versions of the F-15 is available with the traditional CFTs installed.

Boeing states that the aircraft's canted vertical tails improve aerodynamic efficiency, provide lift, and reduce airframe weight. The go onto say that another aerodynamic improvement is the Digital Flight Control System, which improves the aircraft's reliability and reduces airframe weight. Survivability improvements include a BAES Digital Electronic Warfare System (DEWS) working in concert with the Raytheon Advanced Electronic Scanning Array (AESA) radar.

Boeing has completed a conceptual prototype of the CFT internal-carriage concept, and plans to flight-test a prototype by the first quarter of 2010, including a live missile launch. The design, development, and test of this internal carriage system are available as a collaborative project with an international aerospace partner.
 
D

drwayne

Guest
There was some interesting variants of the F-14 that were brought out, right before it was killed...

The dihedral change interests me for some reason...

Wayne
 
N

newsartist

Guest
I notice they are going for the export market?

The F-16/79 concept is alive and well.

They are going to have to better a lot of MiG deals or this will be another paper design trivia question.
 
D

drwayne

Guest
One advantage of the 15 over the 54 is that it is not quite the maintainance intensive
aircraft that the 14 was.

I think MiG will always be able to get them on price. The question will be whether countries
perceive other advantages in going with the American designs.

I will be curious if they continue the Russian pattern of license/local build will continue in wake
of some issues that have arisen with China, and to a lesser extent, India.

Wayne
 
S

steve82

Guest
You can bet this is being dangled out there as a possible F-35 alternative. Boeing is more than likely going to get the tanker re-bid if for no other reason than their Chicago corporate location is probably very tight with the Obama admin. After enough people squawk about F-35 cost increases, they're hoping to jump in with numbers to show they can do it cheaper, although they'll find a way to make gazillions out of it. After Northrop's experience with the F-20, nobody is going to put corporate money into developing an export fighter without a good hunch they can sell it domestically.
 
J

jim48

Guest
steve82":352iyfqk said:
You can bet this is being dangled out there as a possible F-35 alternative. Boeing is more than likely going to get the tanker re-bid if for no other reason than their Chicago corporate location is probably very tight with the Obama admin. After enough people squawk about F-35 cost increases, they're hoping to jump in with numbers to show they can do it cheaper, although they'll find a way to make gazillions out of it. After Northrop's experience with the F-20, nobody is going to put corporate money into developing an export fighter without a good hunch they can sell it domestically.
Good point. The new F-15 is probably a better fighter/bomber than the F-35 anyway. I'd love to see us start buying F-15's again! North American gave us the three great war-winning fighters: The P-51, the F-86 and the F-15. Too bad they couldn't have kept the F-14 in service, but then look how they are keeping the F-18 line alive! I'm getting old. I remember when all of these planes made their debuts! I was sorry to see the Navy and Air Force retire the Phantom, a truly unique plane. I'm am underwhelmed by the F-35 and hope that Gates buys additional F-22s. Too bad they won't do a next generation Tomcat!
 
S

scottb50

Guest
jim48":lwy2iww5 said:
steve82":lwy2iww5 said:
You can bet this is being dangled out there as a possible F-35 alternative. Boeing is more than likely going to get the tanker re-bid if for no other reason than their Chicago corporate location is probably very tight with the Obama admin. After enough people squawk about F-35 cost increases, they're hoping to jump in with numbers to show they can do it cheaper, although they'll find a way to make gazillions out of it. After Northrop's experience with the F-20, nobody is going to put corporate money into developing an export fighter without a good hunch they can sell it domestically.
Good point. The new F-15 is probably a better fighter/bomber than the F-35 anyway. I'd love to see us start buying F-15's again! North American gave us the three great war-winning fighters: The P-51, the F-86 and the F-15. Too bad they couldn't have kept the F-14 in service, but then look how they are keeping the F-18 line alive! I'm getting old. I remember when all of these planes made their debuts! I was sorry to see the Navy and Air Force retire the Phantom, a truly unique plane. I'm am underwhelmed by the F-35 and hope that Gates buys additional F-22s. Too bad they won't do a next generation Tomcat!

The F-15 was built by McDonald Douglas which was taken over by Boeing, the same for the F-18.
 
J

jim48

Guest
scottb50":o4r1dukt said:
jim48":o4r1dukt said:
steve82":o4r1dukt said:
You can bet this is being dangled out there as a possible F-35 alternative. Boeing is more than likely going to get the tanker re-bid if for no other reason than their Chicago corporate location is probably very tight with the Obama admin. After enough people squawk about F-35 cost increases, they're hoping to jump in with numbers to show they can do it cheaper, although they'll find a way to make gazillions out of it. After Northrop's experience with the F-20, nobody is going to put corporate money into developing an export fighter without a good hunch they can sell it domestically.
Good point. The new F-15 is probably a better fighter/bomber than the F-35 anyway. I'd love to see us start buying F-15's again! North American gave us the three great war-winning fighters: The P-51, the F-86 and the F-15. Too bad they couldn't have kept the F-14 in service, but then look how they are keeping the F-18 line alive! I'm getting old. I remember when all of these planes made their debuts! I was sorry to see the Navy and Air Force retire the Phantom, a truly unique plane. I'm am underwhelmed by the F-35 and hope that Gates buys additional F-22s. Too bad they won't do a next generation Tomcat!

The F-15 was built by McDonald Douglas which was taken over by Boeing, the same for the F-18.
I stand corrected. I could have sworn it was North American. Oh, it was McDonnell/Douglas, not McDonald. We both need to brush up on this stuff! :)
 
S

scottb50

Guest
I stand corrected. I could have sworn it was North American. Oh, it was McDonnell/Douglas, not McDonald. We both need to brush up on this stuff! :)[/quote]

Your right, I spent too much time around Boeing people. DC stood for Death Crate.
 
N

newsartist

Guest
scottb50":1enqt5g1 said:
I stand corrected. I could have sworn it was North American....

I can understand that confusion.

You remember when it was new, probably before.

Virtually every press release compared the Eagle to the Sabre, as the "First pure Air Superiority Fighter since North American's F-86."

Dou you remember "Air Superiority Blue"?
 
J

jim48

Guest
newsartist":112zcprj said:
scottb50":112zcprj said:
I stand corrected. I could have sworn it was North American....

I can understand that confusion.

You remember when it was new, probably before.

Virtually every press release compared the Eagle to the Sabre, as the "First pure Air Superiority Fighter since North American's F-86."

Dou you remember "Air Superiority Blue"?

Hmm. I'm old enough to remember the teething problems when the F-111 was first deployed to Vietnam. I also remember the first "smart bomb" camera footage, also from Vietnam. Air Superiority Blue doesn't ring any bells. I think we should start a letter writing campaign to bring back the F-14!
 
D

drwayne

Guest
"Too bad they won't do a next generation Tomcat!"

The F-14 finally got a good engine just in time to be phased out of service...

Wayne
 
J

jim48

Guest
drwayne":ysvm2akt said:
"Too bad they won't do a next generation Tomcat!"

The F-14 finally got a good engine just in time to be phased out of service...

Yeah, I remember reading articles about how "... if only it had a better engine..." So it finally got one-or two, to be precise-then they retired it. Sucks. Hot plane, designed to take on anything Soviet attacking the fleet. Sucks that we just toss this stuff away, the actual tools-and-dies to build planes and rockets, like the Tomcat and the Saturn 5 moon rocket. I guess I'm a dreamer.

Wayne
 
D

drwayne

Guest
Unfortunately, even if you have all of the plans, and the tool and die stuff, when you lose the people,
the real-world experience that it takes to actually build something drifts away. I wonder how long it
would take to re-learn how to build a Blackbird again?

Wayne
 
N

newsartist

Guest
The biggest loss to the industry is attitude.

The Skunk Work's, "We can do anything", has been replaced by waiting for contracts to build techno-safe, (not always inexpensive,) pieces of ideas.
 
S

scottb50

Guest
drwayne":3lyglt7y said:
Unfortunately, even if you have all of the plans, and the tool and die stuff, when you lose the people,
the real-world experience that it takes to actually build something drifts away. I wonder how long it
would take to re-learn how to build a Blackbird again?

Wayne

It's more a point what the Blackbird could do can be done quicker, safer and better from orbit. As far as recreating the technology I'm sure it could be done, and improved on dramatically, if it was needed. The real question is do we need the capabilities when equally capable aircraft are 5-10 years from even existing. F-22's are kept out of the Middle East because losing one would be a major blow, both in cost and allowing access to the technology by potential adversaries. The F-15 can be beaten by the F-22 but the F-15 can defeat every other aircraft in existence. I would rather have 2-3 F-15's then an F-22 any day and the gee whiz add-ons are more for show then go.
 
F

Foxbat

Guest
In my opinion western-built aircraft are too expensive. Jets like the MiG-29 (more information can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-29 or here: http://www.migflug.com/index.php?id=29&L=1) do for most countries make more sense. Especially the new vector-thrust models are great.
Well, but for the luck of the US, avionics and political reasons (trade ties etc.), are more important than aircraft performance. So it will probably stay like this for a long time that authoritarian regimes (except those that are "friends", like saudi arabia) will buy Russian Aircraft and others will buy western built jets like Eurofighter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon or the F-15 silent Eagle.
 
N

newsartist

Guest
That has been the case since Sabres vs. MiG-15s in the 1950s.

The Russian plan calls for more simple, solid airplanes, (and spacecraft, weapons, everything.)and the West goes for fewer complex types. Neither approach is clearly 'good' or 'bad', they are just different.

Personally, I lean slightly toward the Russian philosophy.
 
T

thebigcat

Guest
drwayne":2ejgjxur said:
"Too bad they won't do a next generation Tomcat!"

The F-14 finally got a good engine just in time to be phased out of service...

Wayne

R.I.P. Bethpage Ironworks. :(
 
E

Eman_3

Guest
MSF09-0028-259_lg.jpg


MSF09-0028-193_lg.jpg


Here's some initial pictures of the proposed F-15 SE (who knows, Windows 98 SE was a marked improvement over 98) and it appears it's basically the same aircraft, but with tons of minor detail improvements.

Although I have more than a passing respect for the F-15, it is fundamental to understand that it has been around since 1972. And in response to the F-15, the Su-27 was born. Make no mistake, if and when they tangle on an equal basis, the Su-27 will be more than a match for the F-15.

So we are looking at a 4.5 generation fighter, basic 4th generation aircraft spruced up with some 5th generation ideas such as reduced radar cross section and improved avionics. And it's obviously aimed at the F-35/F-22 market.

I expect a lot of marketing effort by Boeing to weasel into a slot where the F-22 and F-35 are the point of the spear, while the F-15 SE will be the one to follow behind the initial attack wave and drop the really heavy iron.
 
T

thebigcat

Guest
Don't assume that the Su-27 is going to beat the F-15 SE should the two mix it up. It wasn't designed to meet the threat of the F-15 directly. It was designed because the USSR didn't have an air superiority fighter.
 
E

Eman_3

Guest
In 1969 the Soviet Union learned of the U.S. Air Force's "F-X" program, which resulted in the F-15 Eagle. The Soviet leadership soon realized that the new American fighter would represent a serious technological advantage over existing Soviet fighters. What was needed was a better-balanced fighter with both good agility and sophisticated systems. In response, the Soviet General Staff issued a requirement for a Perspektivnyy Frontovoy Istrebitel (PFI, literally "Perspective Frontline Fighter", roughly "Advanced Frontline Fighter"). Specifications were extremely ambitious, calling for long range, good short-field performance (including the ability to use austere runways), excellent agility, Mach 2+ speed, and heavy armament. The aerodynamic design for the new aircraft was largely carried out by TsAGI in collaboration with the Sukhoi design bureau.

However, in 1971 Soviet studies determined the need for different types of fighters. So the PFI program was supplemented with the LPFI (Perspektivnyy Lyogkiy Frontovoy Istrebitel, or "Advanced Lightweight Tactical Fighter") program. The Soviet fighter force was planned to be approximately 33% PFI and 67% LPFI. PFI and LPFI paralleled the contemporary USAF decision that led to the "Lightweight Fighter" program and the F-16 Fighting Falcon and YF-17 Cobra. The PFI fighter was assigned to Sukhoi, resulting in the Sukhoi Su-27, while the lightweight fighter went to Mikoyan.

The Su-27 was designed to kill F-15's. As a great fighter like the F-15 it can do many tasks, but it's purpose in life is to kill F-15's.

I'm very interested in who Boeing intends to sell this aircraft to. If it's for export, it definitiely is way up near the top in price and capability. And it has many foreign competitors that challenge it in price.

My interpretation is that the F-15 SE is aimed squarely at stealing away F-35 buyers. The F-35 is a strike fighter, and the F-15SE is too, a development of the F-15 Strike Eagle.

Boeing’s estimated cost for a new aircraft is $100 million, including spares and training. However, if the existing F-15E customers want to retrofit their aircraft to the F-15SE standard, the company would undertake same at a much lesser cost. Boeing plans to offer the aircraft initially to Israel, Japan, Singapore, Saudi Arabia and South Korea, with all being current F-15 customers.

As well, the F-35 IOC won't be until 2012 for the F-35A, 2013 for the F-35B, and 2015 for the F-35C. That is a wonderful window of opportunity for Boeing to push out the F-15 SE.

According to Tom Burbage, executive vice president and general manager for
F-35 Program Integration, Lockheed Martin is still pursuing the international MYB.
But it now cannot be agreed until next year at the earliest, for deliveries beginning in 2013. Burbage told AIN that F-35 suppliers had been too busy to work up multi-year quotes. Three international partners have recently specified their expected buys (Australia, 100; Italy, 131 and Turkey, 100). Norway has confirmed the F-35 and said it will buy more than the planned 48. But the UK requirement has officially dropped from 150 to 138, and may fall further. Canada, Denmark and the Netherlands are still evaluating alternative combat aircraft.
http://www.ainonline.com/news/singl...ael-f-35-sale-might-drive-down-export-prices/
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts