Boeing has egg on its face

[SpockeX]

Boeing has proven that if you tell people for long enough how difficult and expensive spaceflight is then they will eventually believe you. Conversely, or so it appears, when that belief permeates the organization itself (Boeing, in this case) then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy motivated by (it appears, also) micromanagement, management by commission and analysis paralysis.
Boeing has lost it, I'm afraid. For reasons unclear, Boeing is now building 21st century spacecraft with 20th century mentality.
On top of this, NAS(A)dministration have forgone that critical task in favour of becoming a spacecraft PRODUCER in a production line where Boeing (with all its experience and massive resources) have already failed.
In this mad dash to claim a piece of the pie it is clear that only the taxpayers have something to lose as Boeing and NASA build very expensive Pintos, complete with gold plated valve covers, to compete with the MACK truck which is SpaceX.
But there is method in this madness because NASA and Boeing will prove, once and for all that, no matter how silly or stupid one's methodology is, everything will be all right when one buries it in money.
In the final analysis one has to wonder for how long they (read: NASA/Boeing) will continue to think that they are so smart that we cannot conceivably comprehend what they're doing. Ya, well, where is the spacecraft...when was it launched?

 

[space1946]

It seems as if both Boeing and Spacex are over promising on equipment to take men to mars and the moon.
NASA wants a rocket that works the first time, but is very expensive.

Spacex seems willing to crash many rockets trying to find one which will work.
I have a high level of anxiety regarding the starship project.
Spacex may run out of money before they get it to work.

There is something crazy about sending a mars bound star ship to low earth orbit and then sending up about 12 more star ships to refuel the unit heading for mars.

Even then apparently it is not possible to return to earth without refueling on mars.

After 50 years of unmanned mars rovers, we still have not returned even one rock from mars,

Mars may be just too far away for humans.

 

[fr rapp]

one it wont take 12 refuelers and at least Space X is working on an actual craft. Boeing received over twice as much money to develop the commercial crew capsule than Space X and still doesn't have a viable craft yet boeing is a big money DUMP that 50 years worth of money could have been used to get to space

 

[space1946]

It seems to me that the solution for a quick moon landing is to use two falcon heavy launchers.
One for the orion capsule and a second for the lunar lander.
However, it will probably take at least five years to get a working lander.
Mars seems to be about 50 years away.

Everyone who built the apollo/saturn rocket is either dead or long retired.

 

[SpockeX]

Well thought out!

The answer apparently isn't chemical rockets but boy, SpaceX makes it look easy.

It is encouraging though that so much progress has been made in just these last few years in particle physics and mathematics. I don't pretend to understand it but the trend is positive and my understanding is that there are already several algorithms for qbit data acquisition and storage.

AI might solve it for us...or destroy us.

 

[SpockeX]

Under the proviso that I may plead temporary insanity later; how do the outworlders do it? I mean craft that defy gravity and generate their own angular momentum.

 

[Ameriman]

Boeing, like any contractor, does what NASA contracts, pays, incentivizes it to do...
Blame NASA, not Boeing.. NASA has screwed up, corrupted, rendered wasteful any contractor it has touched. Government is greedy, wasteful, incompetent, & NASA is Government.


Every thinking American is against the wasteful spending of NASA’s SLS/Orion... against throwing more money down the NASA toilet. The money NASA wasted by bloated, pork driven red-tape NASA could have been used by innovative, American private enterprise to have affordable, sustainable lunar colonies a decade ago.
SLS, like the rest of NASA manned space is another wasteful dead-end Government pork boondoggle... the problem not the solution.

The problem with Federal Agency NASA is NASA... Nasa can NEVER WORK.. never be efficient, innovative or spirited.. name one Federal Agency which has EVER worked efficiently or effectively..

 

[Atlan0001]

It seems as if both Boeing and Spacex are over promising on equipment to take men to mars and the moon.
NASA wants a rocket that works the first time, but is very expensive.

Spacex seems willing to crash many rockets trying to find one which will work.
I have a high level of anxiety regarding the starship project.
Spacex may run out of money before they get it to work.

There is something crazy about sending a mars bound star ship to low earth orbit and then sending up about 12 more star ships to refuel the unit heading for mars.

Even then apparently it is not possible to return to earth without refueling on mars.

After 50 years of unmanned mars rovers, we still have not returned even one rock from mars,

Mars may be just too far away for humans.

If a rocket, or any vessel, works the first time it's a miracle. If the NASA / Boeing team effort doesn't, in fact, work the first time, it'll be more expensive, in the long run, than SpaceX crashing many rockets trying to find one which will work. The SpaceX effort is a private-commercial effort, the NASA / Boeing effort a government / industrial effort. Many, many, things for the rest of us will come out of private-commercial efforts. Little, if anything, out of the government-industrial effort. The former is almost superconductive, the latter neck deep mud.

If SpaceX's starship doesn't end up going to Mars, it will have, probably, many other [paying] nearer to Earth uses.

We really don't want even one rock from Mars. We really don't want -- the Earth really doesn't want -- even one rock from planets, moons, asteroids, or comets. Leaving and turning the material out there, the "New World", is exchange of energy with this "Old World". In which case, the Old World, as in the past of "Old World," itself becomes New World. A New World Frontier merger.