Bruce Gagnon: Those who are pro-space are evil & are corporate toadies

[Crossover_Maniac]

Bruce Gagnon, best known as a so-call 'peace' activist who protested the militarization of space and the Cassini probe for its nuclear power generators and head of the Global Network Against War and Nuclear Power In Space (GNAW N PIS), has now dropped all pretexts and declared war on the National Space Society and Mars Society.<br /><br /><em><font color="#ff0000">The National Space Society (NSS) is talking about building a "space movement." The organization is heavily funded by weapons corporations like Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Raytheon, Honeywell, Northrup Grumman, Aerojet and others. About support from these corporate giants NSS says, "By supporting NSS, these companies have shown their commitment to strong citizen involvement in our nation's space program."<br /><br />And just what do these aerospace corporations want in return for funding this "grassroots space movement?" They are asking NSS to lobby for massive federal expenditures to move the arms race into space, to fund the space technology infrastructure to put mining colonies on the moon and Mars, and to support the development of space-based solar power technology that would put centralized solar production in corporate hands rather than development of decentralized solar technologies on homes and businesses back here on Mother Earth.<br /><br /><br />As one NSS leader puts it, citizen involvement in space drives power at the Congressional "negotiating table for funding."<br /><br />Because of the growing budget deficit in the U.S., the weapons industry worries that space technology funding will take a hit. They are now moving to preempt that problem.<br /><br />With heavy funding from the industry the NSS is undertaking a "five year Strategic Plan" and "building a stronger Space Movement is a key component of that plan."<br /><br />NSS says, "Recently, the space community has become concerned about the relatively low level of support for space among America's youth....In order to strengthen the Movement, additional emphasis will be placed on chapter development and grassroots organization. We will not only appeal to people via intellectual argument, but also to their emotions through the use of space art and other media."<br /><br />The aerospace industry understands how things work. If you want to control the discussion and change public perception, then you must create the grassroots thunder. NSS confirms this by saying, "The media, the public, politicians, and historians all view something to be of greater importance when it is a movement as compared to when it is not."<br /><br />And since there is not presently a "pro-space movement" the industry has decided to create one.<br /><br />There is much money to be made if the public can be convinced that we should spend our dwindling tax dollars on space technology. The Mars Society says that the Earth is a rotting, dying, stinking planet and that we must move our civilization to Mars and that Congress must appropriate funds to "terraform" Mars. And what does terraform mean? It means turning the dusty dry red planet into a replica of the Earth - alive and green and habitable. Just imagine how much that would cost? Imagine the profits for the aerospace corporations to be given such a mission.<br /><br />Space technology development is very expensive. Just one illustration - the International Space Station was originally supposed to cost the public $10 billion, but the price tag has grown to over $100 billion and it is not yet finished. By the time the space station is completed it will be an outdated technology and on we will go to the next round. Already the aerospace industry is working on the successor programs to the space shuttle and the space station. But in order to get these massive projects funded it must create a citizens base - a movement.<br /><br />Some years ago I attended a pro-space development conference at Cape Canaveral in Florida. I went to a workshop on Mars where the speaker was the head of the tourist facility at the Kennedy Space Center. Why him, what did he know about Mars? His message was simple - unless we get the kids, who will be taxpayers in 20 years, to support these space missions to the moon and Mars, we are sunk. So, he said, we are doing a complete renovation of the space center tourist facility on a Mars theme and increasing our efforts to bring school children into the space center.<br /><br />On the other side we have the Global Network organizing international opposition to these plans for "everything space". We understand that we can't have social progress in the U.S. and pay for "everything space" at the same time. We are also hearing from our GN affiliated groups in Sweden, England, France, South Korea, Italy, Australia, Japan, India, and other nations that their countries are being dragged into the space technology game because the U.S. needs allies to help fund this very expensive new direction. The challenge becomes global as we try to hang onto our national resources to protect life for the future generations right here on planet Earth.<br /><br />Yes indeed, we do need a space movement. It's just a matter of which kind we need. And the real question each of us must answer is "which side are you on?"<br /><br />&nbsp;<br /><br />http://www.space4peace.org</font></em><br /><br />There is no compromise with Bruce Gagnon.&nbsp; No solar-powered ion rocketships to Mars will satisfied Bruce's ire.&nbsp; You who love space exploration and dream of a future of mankind traveling to the planets are his enemies, tools of the so-called military industrial complex.&nbsp; Some have called him a nut for his claims of military bases and mining operations on the Moon.&nbsp; I call him a liar, cult leader, and con man.&nbsp; The wild stories of military conspiracies to build moonbases are the kool-aid he gives his followers to drive them into a neo-Luddite fervor.&nbsp; This man is our enemy and all of his followers as well.&nbsp; They will not be satisfied until Cape Kennedy is torned down and replaced with a garden for the hemp that half of his loser followers smoke and NASA's budget is spent on failed social programs.&nbsp; He has spat in our faces and called us 'war mongers' and 'useful idiots' and enemies of Mother Earth, the one true god of the environmental extremists (and Bruce Gagnon, her prophet).&nbsp; Even going so far as slandering Robert Zubrin and his Mars Society and claiming they have some sort of anti-earth agenda.&nbsp; They are waging a jihad against us all.&nbsp; Make no bones about it.&nbsp; The exploration and development of space has been flying under the radar of the neo-Luddites, watermelons, environmentalists who are green on the outside but red (I'll leave it up to your imagination on which 'red' I'm referring to comrade), and the cult of Gaia.&nbsp; But as things pick and space travel starts to pick up in the private sector, GNAW N PIS will be there to crap on everything we hold so dear and many more worked hard for, all in the name of this socialistic neo-Luddite worker's paradise.&nbsp; And if any of you have some choice words for Gagnon and his ilk, send an email to globalnet@mindspring.com, the official e-mail address to GNAW N PIS. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Feel the Hope-nosis </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

<p><font size="2">This kind of crap shows up with monotonous regularity. The simple fact is; if we do not spread out into the Solar System, then the Galaxy, Humanity & every living thing on Earth is doomed to an&nbsp;extinction so complete we may as well never have existed in the first place. </font></p><p><font size="2">That is what Bruce Gagnon preaches. If he truly believed that, he'd off himself in order to set an example for others to follow.&nbsp;That he has not done this speaks to his true motives. </font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<p>And not even wrong</p><p>Jon</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[l3p3r]

What a looney! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<p>There does not appear to be any way to respond to that piece, even though there have been some posted (and mostly critical) comments.</p><p>Jon</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[frodo1008]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>There does not appear to be any way to respond to that piece, even though there have been some posted (and mostly critical) comments.Jon <br /> Posted by jonclarke</DIV></p><p>How about this.</p><p>"An analog clock that no longer runs at all still tells the correct time twice each day!"</p><p>In other words this fellow does indeed make some salient points.</p><p>The main problem with his presentation is that he falls far short of the main picture in several ways. &nbsp;</p><p>In the first place he seems to make the same assumption that a lot of American taxpayers make.&nbsp; And that is that NASA somehow is a driver in the federal budget.&nbsp; Heck, this wasn't even true back in the 1960's when NASA had a budget that was 2% of the federal budget as an average for the greatest decade of human space progress that there ever was!</p><p>Now, at only some 0.5% of the federal budget, (and human space efforts are even less than half of that) NASAs' budget might as well not even exist at all in the great scheme of federal expenditures.&nbsp; So the guy is like a dog barking at a non existent tree in the dark.&nbsp; He just isn't relevant, even to most congress people anymore.</p><p>Then there is an absolute doom awaiting humanity on this planet that actually has nothing to do with NEOS.&nbsp; And that seems to me at least to be that humanity is in a race.&nbsp; That race is whether humanity is first going to use up all of the viable resources of this spaceship earth before the use of all of those resources so pollutes the plant that we can no longer exist on it!&nbsp; It is NOT a race that can be won, regardless of what we do! </p><p>As any engineer worth his pay knows there is no such thing as a perfect system.&nbsp; So these results are gong to happen regardless of how much we as humanity recycle, conserve, or use and invent environmental stopgap measures to try to create the perfect Earth spaceship that this fellow (and those that think like him) seems to think that we can create here on this planet.&nbsp; It just isn't going to happen!</p><p>This would be an awfully gloomy picture for the future of mankind if it was NOT for the human space programs of humanity in general.&nbsp; If we don't get the thrust of human civilization off of this planet in 100 years or so (a very short time in even the history of man himself, and almost non existent in geologic terms) humanity as we know it is going to simple cease to exist!</p><p>And all those other environmental efforts (while useful in themselves) are only going to buy us the time to do this!</p><p>So in actuality the human space programs of humanity are indeed the ONLY really long term environmental plan to save humanity from itself!</p><p>Now, notice that I did NOT state that we needed to get all of humanity (or even a truly significant portion of humanity) itself off of the planet, just the thrust of human civilization.&nbsp; I wanted to make that clear here. </p><p>And this, mind you is even without the possibility of an NEO doing at least our present civilization in, if not just destroying human life on this planet entirely!</p><p>It is in these arguments where people that think like this fellow miss the larger picture almost totally!</p><p>But he can (if he is not allowed to just kill the real important environmental human space programs) possibly give the human space program just enough timer to actually save humanity from itself.&nbsp; </p><p>As my first statement said, "An analog clock that that no longer runs tells the correct time twice a day!"</p><p>Is that then a better answer to him? </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

 

[F104Starfighter]

In all honesty I cant stand people like that. They convince them self that they are 100% right and every one else is wrong no matter how illogical thier believe is <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Swampcat]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>So these results are gong to happen regardless of how much we as humanity recycle, conserve, or use and invent environmental stopgap measures to try to create the perfect Earth spaceship that this fellow (and those that think like him) seems to think that we can create here on this planet.&nbsp; It just isn't going to happen! &nbsp; &nbsp;<br /> Posted by frodo1008</DIV></p><p>frodo, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Environmental issues are important and anything we can do to lessen any negative impacts on our environmental the better off us and our descendants will be.</p><p>Obviously, Gagnon and his supporters are extremists and ill-informed, but let's not give up on improving and protecting our environmental simply because some whack job goes overboard.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>