Can anyone help

aussiebloke · Nov 18, 2008

G' Day FolksI'll get right to the point I'm looking for a composite material made of fibreglass/resin.It consists of a finely weaved glassfibre cloth (most likely pre-impregnated with resin and oven heated) three layers on either side of a honeycomb core.The honeycomb core is also a plain weave glassfibre cloth again most likely  pre-impregnated with resin and heat formed into a honeycomb core.The core has an unusual joining technique, (compared with commercial methods, two cores overlap into each other) the material varies in thickness with a corrugated section (also join through/across the corrugation as well.)And if that is not enough it has a radius right angle bend in the photo samples I've seen.This material is not, I repeat not your run of the mill commercial honeycomb core laminated sandwich panel/board material.This material is shape formed (meaning moulds required, ovens etc) specially made for a specific job/contract.It has a brownish colour added to the core the laminates are not protected with a gel coat. (protected against the elements) On the surfaces you can see the satin like cloth pattern finish.It is not that good at acoustics and insulation (resin burns with naked flame but self-extinguishes when the flame is removed.It appears to me to be for internal use offering high strength to weight (good load carrying ability.)Which finally brings me to my need for help.I have checked out things like civil aircraft, Apollo program, military aircraft and one off designs for the use of such a material, yes there is honeycombed material used but all I can find is aluminum/stainless steel composites say in the Apollo program.I need this material an all resin/fibreglass composite to be used in the sixties. Can anyone help as to the manufacturer and/or what it was used for?To me it is for a special application which is why I have put it on the SSA board if it needs to be move do so.PS. the honeycomb cells are slightly elongated and a match head would fit within the cell, (referring to the diameter of the cell)Would appreciate any help at all thank you.Cheers Aussiebloke.

MeteorWayne · Nov 18, 2008

This request most certainly does not belong in Space Science and Astronomy.I will move it to the Open Forum.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

lildreamer · Nov 19, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>G' Day FolksI'll get right to the point I'm looking for a composite material made of fibreglass/resin.It consists of a finely weaved glassfibre cloth (most likely pre-impregnated with resin and oven heated) three layers on either side of a honeycomb core.The honeycomb core is also a plain weave glassfibre cloth again most likely  pre-impregnated with resin and heat formed into a honeycomb core.The core has an unusual joining technique, (compared with commercial methods, two cores overlap into each other) the material varies in thickness with a corrugated section (also join through/across the corrugation as well.)And if that is not enough it has a radius right angle bend in the photo samples I've seen.This material is not, I repeat not your run of the mill commercial honeycomb core laminated sandwich panel/board material.This material is shape formed (meaning moulds required, ovens etc) specially made for a specific job/contract.It has a brownish colour added to the core the laminates are not protected with a gel coat. (protected against the elements) On the surfaces you can see the satin like cloth pattern finish.It is not that good at acoustics and insulation (resin burns with naked flame but self-extinguishes when the flame is removed.It appears to me to be for internal use offering high strength to weight (good load carrying ability.)Which finally brings me to my need for help.I have checked out things like civil aircraft, Apollo program, military aircraft and one off designs for the use of such a material, yes there is honeycombed material used but all I can find is aluminum/stainless steel composites say in the Apollo program.I need this material an all resin/fibreglass composite to be used in the sixties. Can anyone help as to the manufacturer and/or what it was used for?To me it is for a special application which is why I have put it on the SSA board if it needs to be move do so.PS. the honeycomb cells are slightly elongated and a match head would fit within the cell, (referring to the diameter of the cell)Would appreciate any help at all thank you.Cheers Aussiebloke.          Posted by aussiebloke</DIV> here are some possible hits...don't know if this helps but here they arelink 1  (WO/2000/034598) FIBERGLASS PARTITION AND METHOD OF MAKING SAMElink 2 US Patent 5711992 - Environmentally safer process of manufacturing honeycomb products for use in composite materials using a water-based phenolic thermosetting resin and the products made therebylink 3 Honeycomb Tubeslink 4 Nida-Core Polypropylene Structural Honeycomb one more ...a product called airex...link 5 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

lildreamer · Nov 19, 2008

quick question is this for marine use - or for restoring a boat ???? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

DrRocket · Nov 19, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>G' Day FolksI'll get right to the point I'm looking for a composite material made of fibreglass/resin.It consists of a finely weaved glassfibre cloth (most likely pre-impregnated with resin and oven heated) three layers on either side of a honeycomb core.The honeycomb core is also a plain weave glassfibre cloth again most likely  pre-impregnated with resin and heat formed into a honeycomb core.The core has an unusual joining technique, (compared with commercial methods, two cores overlap into each other) the material varies in thickness with a corrugated section (also join through/across the corrugation as well.)And if that is not enough it has a radius right angle bend in the photo samples I've seen.This material is not, I repeat not your run of the mill commercial honeycomb core laminated sandwich panel/board material.This material is shape formed (meaning moulds required, ovens etc) specially made for a specific job/contract.It has a brownish colour added to the core the laminates are not protected with a gel coat. (protected against the elements) On the surfaces you can see the satin like cloth pattern finish.It is not that good at acoustics and insulation (resin burns with naked flame but self-extinguishes when the flame is removed.It appears to me to be for internal use offering high strength to weight (good load carrying ability.)Which finally brings me to my need for help.I have checked out things like civil aircraft, Apollo program, military aircraft and one off designs for the use of such a material, yes there is honeycombed material used but all I can find is aluminum/stainless steel composites say in the Apollo program.I need this material an all resin/fibreglass composite to be used in the sixties. Can anyone help as to the manufacturer and/or what it was used for?To me it is for a special application which is why I have put it on the SSA board if it needs to be move do so.PS. the honeycomb cells are slightly elongated and a match head would fit within the cell, (referring to the diameter of the cell)Would appreciate any help at all thank you.Cheers Aussiebloke.          Posted by aussiebloke</DIV>I have seen honeycomb structures used in graphite composite parts for launch vehicles.  I think the ones I saw were also made of woven graphite cloth pre-impregnated. but I don't see any reason why they could not be made of E-glass or something like that.You seem to have a very specific part in mind.  Where did you see it and what was the context ?  Are you looking for this for a specific application?  If so, what ?There are manufacturers of composite structures might be able to help, but I need to know more about your specific needs. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

jim48 · Nov 19, 2008

It's quite simple, really. Try inverse-phasing. Bingo! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

aussiebloke · Nov 19, 2008

G' Day FolksWasn't sure where to stick it Wayne thought a technical board or Aviation.Never thought of Open Forum though.This material for the sixties is quite advanced so thought an old salt in the Apollo days and/or some experimental aircraft. the only place here in Australia that might have experimented/required something like this material to be made would be at Woomera rocket range and then imported, but I have found nothing like it.Whoever cracks this will be solving a forty year old mystery.Lildreamer thanks for replying you found some links that I missed I'm not sure what the resin is, you have given me some more reading.Lildreamer said;>quick question is this for marine use - or for restoring a boat ????< Neither, it's material that was found in 1968 by a property manager in rural part of Queensland a place called Greenbank in bushland. Basically it has no business being there.According to the witness bits of this material found over a wide area (kilometers) as if it exploded in the air. DrRocket thanks for your reply.DrRocket said;>You seem to have a very specific part in mind.  Where did you see it and what was the context ?  Are you looking for this for a specific application?  If so, what ?There are manufacturers of composite structures might be able to help, but I need to know more about your specific needs.< As above, what I have seen (photos) in a book making wild claims and another group claiming to have solved it both leaving you up in the air as to what it was used for and who was the manufacturer.This material is not your typical panel/board it's made for a specific application it was analyzed but only to prove it to be a core and laminates of glass fibre what grade/type it is or resin I haven't been able to find out.I don't think it could withstand a high temperature though, the resin would give way and it would de-laminate.Any craft (not knowing what it is from) that has lost this amount of material (collected by locals and the RAAF) according to the author of this book is in a lot of trouble the RAAF don't know what the material belongs to.I suspect an elaborate hoax but need to find the manufacture and what it was made for then piece together the trail leading to Australia.If you/anybody can help it would be appeciate, something ain't right here.Better go the wife wants her tea if I don't answer straight away it is because of storms one is on the way now.Cheers and thanks again Aussiebloke

a_lost_packet_ · Nov 19, 2008

I'm not sure it helps but, it sounds like an insulation medium of some type.  A picture would be nice, if you can manage it.A couple of ideas: <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/14/b68fbebd-16a5-4d63-9ed5-add23395b0b3.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  http://www.tradeindia.com/fp123448/INSULATING-PLATES.htmlhttp://norplex-micarta.com/products/category-detail.php?page=32 (Includes glass-resin composit panels used for armor plating and all sorts of nifty applications.  Hexagonal structure evident.)The thing is, there are all sorts of things that could possibly comply with your descriptions.  A pic would definitely be worth the effort if you can find one. *Note - I found several suggestions in patents that glass fiber insulating panels fiting your description have been used in constructing satellite power systems, principally part of solar-cell arrangements as sever temp changes don't affect them as readily as other mediums. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

aussiebloke · Nov 19, 2008

G' Day and good evening again folks.ALP said; >The thing is, there are all sorts of things that could possibly comply with your descriptions.  A pic would definitely be worth the effort if you can find one.< ALP I'd like to post some photos out of the book but I'm not sure of the copyright issue.Not sure that the method used to print the photos in the book will scan copy/paste well either.I was hoping that what I had explain so far that anybody who worked in the industry/projects/company in the sixties would have picked up on it straight away.I have tried really long and hard to find something like it on the net but only come up with the same sort of flat sheet combinations you all have.Regarding satellites this is back in the sixties (found in 68) the material might be even earlier but yes something specially designed/shaped and no not really good at insulating.Thanks for the input.Cheers Aussiebloke

lildreamer · Nov 19, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>G' Day and good evening again folks.ALP said; >The thing is, there are all sorts of things that could possibly comply with your descriptions.  A pic would definitely be worth the effort if you can find one.< ALP I'd like to post some photos out of the book but I'm not sure of the copyright issue.Not sure that the method used to print the photos in the book will scan copy/paste well either.I was hoping that what I had explain so far that anybody who worked in the industry/projects/company in the sixties would have picked up on it straight away.I have tried really long and hard to find something like it on the net but only come up with the same sort of flat sheet combinations you all have.Regarding satellites this is back in the sixties (found in 68) the material might be even earlier but yes something specially designed/shaped and no not really good at insulating.Thanks for the input.Cheers Aussiebloke       Posted by aussiebloke</DIV>what is the book's name you mention and can you give us the pages you are referencing....??? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

lildreamer · Nov 19, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>what is the book's name you mention and can you give us the pages you are referencing....??? Posted by lildreamer</DIV> nver mind found out what the context of the question isGreenbank, Queensland  Honeycomb queried on google gives several listings  about  a UFO crash site but in Aussie territory in 1968. Recommend this moves to Unexplained..... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

aussiebloke · Nov 19, 2008

G' Day and good morning.Very good Lildreamer I was wondering who was going to be first to find it.There are two reasons I didn't mention the title, embarrassment and two I wanted to find what the material was made for and the manufacturer (for it to stand alone) without the knee jerk reaction dismissal that you just displayed it's been forty years.It is really strange, alien if you like to me, some researchers investigate it discovered the cloth to be similar/same to man made cloth and then promptly took their bat and ball and went home. Waving a flat sheet of aeroweb around and claiming "see solved" is not solving it, a Labrador is not a poodle there's similarities but that's it.Yes the book is titled Alien Honeycomb by John Pinkney and Leonard Ryzman.That is their opinion.My point is if someone found really old religious artifacts dumped in bushland here in Australia there would be an investigation finding nobody reporting them missing here they would then search over seas until they found where they were stolen from.The artifacts just didn't appear in the bushland by themselves.Neither did this stuff yet everybody just walked away shaking their heads.This material is unique that is made for and specific job remember this is in the sixties there were X amount of glassfibre and resin manufacturers there were fewer sandwich composite board  manufacturer and even fewer glassfibre honeycomb sandwich board manufacturers and most likely one or two shape-forming fibreglass honeycomb composite manufacturers and I cannot find who's material it is. It came off something damn it.Since no one seems to be missing anything then I suspected it was planted there to be found.If that is the case then it is indeed quite an elaborate Hoax.See I'm discussing the material how did it get there I'm leaning towards an American company making something for the military/aircraft/space program a material not familiar to the general public, planted in another country and their military also unfamiliar with the material in order to cause a certain reaction. (Apparently the RAAF who attended were looking for metal with rivets and the like to identify an aircraft there was none just a lot of this shattered material)If you want to play musical chairs with the post that's fine just stay focused does anybody know some one retired who worked in the industry who might be able to shine a light on it anything.Cheers for now Aussiebloke

brandbll · Nov 19, 2008

Let me just say that if this thread ever dies out you are more than welcome to join me in my newly created Moon Hoax  thread.  It's fun and exciting, always coming up with new ideas.  And the best part is, it's easy.  You just take any idea right off the top of your head, just right when you think of it, and you play it off as fact.  You could even incorporate your little UFO into it.  You don't even have to have anything to back up your newly found fact,   Even if you do want something to back up your newly found fact all you have to do is make up the back up evidence.  Also, i found this out, just claim it's from an anonymous person who has such and such reason to remain anonymous.  I like to think of it as cutting edge conspiracy theory. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard! </div>

lildreamer · Nov 20, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>G' Day and good morning.Very good Lildreamer I was wondering who was going to be first to find it.There are two reasons I didn't mention the title, embarrassment and two I wanted to find what the material was made for and the manufacturer (for it to stand alone) without the knee jerk reaction dismissal that you just displayed it's been forty years.It is really strange, alien if you like to me, some researchers investigate it discovered the cloth to be similar/.....................cut for berivty sake... Posted by aussiebloke</DIV> Not really it all depends on your quest...are you looking for a terrestrial answer or non terrestrial answer....If you are looking for an answer where the material is man made and why it was there in the first place no problem but if you want ET went BOOOOOMMM off to Unexplain we go...and try from there either way...I'm still willing to resolve the issue - I like a good mystery just as much as the next bloke.... Its possible that the material is military grade fiberglass...similar to this...LinkHave you tried scouring the net looking for declassified material available to the public - regarding military material sciences for the late 60's early 70's ?  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

aussiebloke · Nov 20, 2008

G' Day and good morning folks.Not a good morning for a lot of folks around here I had to shut down last night because of rolling storms a lot of damage has been cause by them.Brandll thanks but no thanks that's the whole problem there is too much, err, made up stuff these days.I know I said I suspect it to be an elaborate hoax but I have no proof yet.I found/felt the book was contrived and concluded that it was a teaser and no real scientific work done.Pinkney wanted the UN to research it an open study so I thought arr-ha there's was going to be a another book in the future but it never happened and then basically forgot about it. Lildreamer Terrestrial I want that material, "the material" used in the fifties/sixties.Yes that is exactly what I be thinken I don't think anybody went searching for the material but as you pointed out if it was classified you would have hit a brick wall so to speak if you had tried.Today there's a chance the information is out there.Lildreamer thanks very much for the Link, but my Adobe reader stopped working.I've reinstalled (and yes the new version) clean out cookies etc.I don't know if it has anything to do with SP3 packIt won't open within IP is there anyway around it?Regarding the book the key players are;Don an American engineer worked on Apollo and later he has a new job which he can't talk about a UFO believer, believes his government is involved in a cover-up.Rzyman bumps into Don by chance in America on his way to a new Job finds both have interest in UFO'sDon tells Rzyman there's a good chance of finding UFO wreckage in Australia because our military/security is slack and says he has information that there was a crash in Queensland somewhere, as time goes on and they are not getting anywhere because the information is too vague, Don gets impatient and gives them a little bit more information each time as to where it happened.  Ryzman is the link between all the players and a friend of Pinkney's. UFO believerPinkney write plays/books thrillers etc. UfologistJos a UFO believer has a piece of the material with her whilst she is on holidays in Queensland bumps into Ryzman by chance.Jos Links Ryzman to Tony who has collected Honeycomb material from the areaTony a local to Greenbank and affiliated with a UfO clubMr and Mrs Fraser property managers near Greenbank military base.Mrs Fraser see bright light sink down behind some pines and leaves a scorched circle in 1966  now a believer, first material found by Mr Fraser in 1968 on his rounds.Material found near railway lines over a wide area.RAAF haven't a clue as to what it is but takes measurements and removes material according to Mrs Fraser through author. The Fraser collect their own pieces. (I noticed Tony's material not burnt where as the bulk of the Frasers is scorched by bushfire.)So you see, right? I'm starting with the source (this Don) I realized it is what the author claims to have happened and I have written the above off the top of my head (please don't make me read it again) but that is basically the plot.So again what is this shape-form honeycomb fibreglass composite doing out in the scrub any ideas? Chuckle.Cheers for now Aussiebloke

jimglenn · Nov 20, 2008

No.  It's not alien. It's only fiberglass.  Not even carbon graphite composite, or nanomaterials, or bucky balls.You are thinking spacecraft or satellite, I am thinking aircraft.  Sailplane wings might have been made that way in Germany during the 1960's.  Molding, extruding, etc is an art that allows many creative techniques. You said yourself it was not high temp material. What self respecting alien would use such junk?  None. They have curved shapes that can be crumpled into a ball like aluminum foil, then it springs back out to the original shape. The Roswell crash remains were sent to Bell Labs, which 2 years later came out with the transistor. Hughes made the laser. Others fiber optics. ALL RITE AFTER ROSWELL.Now that's a conspiracy.G'day. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/2/2b825b66-6706-4b99-8274-28dc4d3b685f.Medium.jpg" alt="" />   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

a_lost_packet_ · Nov 21, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>....So again what is this shape-form honeycomb fibreglass composite doing out in the scrub any ideas? Chuckle.Cheers for now Aussiebloke     Posted by aussiebloke</DIV>Sure, I have as many ideas as their are uses for fiberglass.But, whatever it is, it isn't from some UFO=ETI.  Who would build vehicles that can cross vast interstellar distance, navigate through immense coulds of radiation, debris and dust, overcome the forces of gravity and be equally capable, apparently, at navigating within an atmosphere... who would build vehicles like that with the purpose of crashing them into the countryside?  The number of UFO=ETI "crash sites" grow ever year.  Either it's bogus crap or we're being invaded by the most incompetant engineers this side of the galaxy.It's fiberglass, right?  It has resin and appears to be shape formed.  OK, then its terrestrial.  Now, what industries use it?  Well, a lot of them.  What do they use it for?  Errr.. lots of things.  Why would it be found in the middle of nowhere?  Maybe they didn't want to use it anymore?  (Dumping of Industrial waste in remote areas isn't completely unknown.)There was some mention of a military base?  Is that nearby?  Is there an active test range or, more importantly, bombing range nearby? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

aussiebloke · Nov 23, 2008

G' Day and good morning Folks.Thanks for the reply ALP.I have tried hard to avoid the ET connection as my post will testify.I only posted the plot of the book as to show why I be thinken something ain't right. A Dr Hickie examined it and concluded on behalf of the other camp that it was an all fibreglass composite the core material being a fine plain weave the glass fibre and complies with the industrial standard, however I could not find what the resin was.If you think you have an answer to the riddle I'm all ears just don't try an sell me another pup (Labrador)I bought the book back then and set about looking for the material I used to haunt a technical book store back then and could only find a company who made a flat sheet alumimiun honeycomb core (I still remember the cells were bigger anyway)Back then and over the years I have been up to my elbows in Fibreglass and have asked at my suppliers on my visits to them as to the use and cost of the this sort of material (honeycomb) it was the top end (expensive) range of the sandwich board composites and they always recommended a foam core board such as Airex. (You still picked yourself up off the floor when you asked for the price of a sheet)ALP back then we assemble other countries hand me downs (still do) cars/ planes/ships/etc and so it is easy to find out what goes into them for-instance the complete range of aircraft and check to see if any Honeycomb material is used.Queensland back then was not known for its industry Brisbane was just an overgrown town (only in more recent time is there been a push to make it the smart state)The military base from what I can find out is just a training camp where, err, soldiers train to be soldiers.Raaf dismissed elaborate drones and so on the Frasers property from what can work out is next door, south of the training camp the area is heavily wooded their involvement in the area was logging telegraph poles and the like.Regarding dumping the material (it was pieces, not truck loads spread out over an area) and quoting from the book Mrs Fraser states that in order for this material to be spread over such a large area (over a wooded area) it had to have exploded up in the air.Regarding bogus crap yes I'm sick of the stuff that is out there and trying to solve just one of them.Better go Aussiebloke

a_lost_packet_ · Nov 23, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>...If you think you have an answer to the riddle I'm all ears just don't try an sell me another pup (Labrador)... Posted by aussiebloke</DIV>I can find anything.  If it exists, I can find it.  However, I don't know very much about this material, what it looks like, what it's made of or what it may have been associated with.  That severely limits my ability to locate a suitable candidate.For instance, several types of fiberglass insulation and construction materials are used in.. bombs.  What if that military base had a bombing or missile test range?  A dummy bomb, with insulation but explosives removed, still breaks up when it hits the ground.Pressed and formed fiberglass insulation was/is also used in some military aircraft.  When cork insulation was discovered to have a bad habit of catching fire, pressed fiberglass board was used. (Refitting started sometime after the beginning of WWII I think.) What if a military aircraft broke up or was used for target practice?Like I said, if it exists I can find it.  But, I need more info.  I can try to look at the book I suppose but, I can't guarrantee I'll remember to search the next time I'm at the bookstore.  What's the name of the book? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

aussiebloke · Nov 24, 2008

G' Day and good morning Folks.ALP I'm looking at the limited amount of photo's of the material and can't find an application for it myself.So you are not on your own the book is out of print ebay had one for about $50.00 AUD. Alien Honeycomb. Subtitle The first solid evidence of UFOs.By John Pinkney and Leonard Ryzman.As I said I would post the pictures but I'm just not sure of this copyright thingy.I was hoping where I posted it there might have been some one that knew their stuff and picked up on it straight away.What I noticed straight away from what I can see in the photos is there is no "gel coat" the laminates are left with a satin like sheen (weave showing through)This is why I think it was for an internal use of some kind this is in answer to your question regarding target practice the RAAF apparently came looking for riveted alloy metal parts of a wrecked whatever and found none just this material according to the Frasers/author.The joining technique is also interesting I just recently found a Dr Hickie stating it was a plain weave core this means you have to unravel the last inch or so of the core (pull the cells apart) lay one on top of the other and proceed to feed the two overlapping sections into one another and then bond them together again.The thing is ALP is you need to make moulds (both sides) lay up your first laminate (cloth/s) lay the core material some with a corrugated side (I gather for extra strength in a certain direction) then a radius right angle curved bends.There is quite a lot of overlapping joins so my reasoning is the bends and corrugation section etc are made separately then spliced to together laid in the mould on the first laminate then the top laminate of cloth/s is applied, back then 50/60s I think a matching mould was used to applied (pressure) and then heated in an oven which also shows a fair bit of chemistry involved (core and mould must withstand temperate for-instance).In other words very labour intensive and for what?The military base is really not that big an area I mean some of the Nature reserves in the area might be big enough to do bombing runs and so on there were folk living around the boundary of it as well.I've got my Adobe Reader working again, plus spent time going through the links Lildreamer posted.I lot of interesting stuff.This part below for-instance keep in mind it is a company promoting its product.   link 4 Nida-Core Polypropylene Structural HoneycombIMPACT STRENGTH A sandwich construction using honeycomb core with its high degree of resiliency is more impact resistant than a single skin laminate with equal or higher weight. A customer of Nida-Core Corp. in the Caribbean islands had a 65 foot commercial charter boat, cored entirely with Nida-Core Corp, polypropylene Honeycomb (less hull bottom), including hull sides, deck and superstructure, scratched and water damaged during a major hurricane on a coral reef. Insurance company agreed to write off the boat on condition that customer takes boat out of service and does not attempt to repair it. The charter boat operator agreed to dismantle the boat and discard of it. Using one of the marine's cranes, they hoisted the 50,000 # boot 50 feet in the air and dropped it onto concrete parking lot, hoping that they would so be able to collect the pieces and discard of them in the dumpster. To much of their astonishment the boat remained completely intact, with no visible structural damage. They repeated the procedure continuously for a couple of days to no avail.To accomplish their mission they had no other alternative than to rent a chain saw to cut the boat into pieces. Although, somewhat extreme of on example, it clearly indicates the superior nature of resilient cored sandwich construction in boats.It didn't really help much the material in the book is shattered into bits the other thing to keep in mind is, yes, today with the money that is around you can have the fastest the lightest whatever, if money is not a worry but back then money was a problem and so you you used materials to do the job that were less expensive.I mean even today the shuttle  they grade the tiles use other insulating material where possible because of cost, (the tiles and the fact the tiles are labour intensive to fit) and built the frame out of an aluminum alloy because it is cheaper lighter and easier to work/tool up with/for.That is all I really wanted to know, how it got there, what it was made for, will be a story in itself.Cheers Aussiebloke

a_lost_packet_ · Nov 25, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>G' Day and good morning Folks.ALP I'm looking at the limited amount of photo's of the material and can't find an application for it myself.So you are not on your own the book is out of print ebay had one for about $50.00 AUD. Alien Honeycomb. Subtitle The first solid evidence of UFOs.By John Pinkney and Leonard Ryzman.As I said I would post the pictures but I'm just not sure of this copyright thingy.I was hoping where I posted it there might have been some one that knew their stuff and picked up on it straight away....Posted by aussiebloke</DIV>I'll see what I can find in the way of pics/images or even the book.  A used bookstore may have it.  I wasn't kidding when I said I can find anything.  However, my accuracy in meeting specifications is completely reliant on the accuracy of the requirements.

So, something that "looks like" the material might be very easy.  We have several candidates in this thread.  However, something that is "exactly" the same as the material, proving its parentage, may be a bit more difficult without good info. Whatever it was, it was found in 1968.  That limits it quite a bit.  If it was found "scattered" over a wide area, then it was either intentionally scattered, comes from more than one source or came from one source either at altitude or dispersed by the winds.What's the density of this material?  Any idea?  That would help identifying it.  Any descriptions straight from the text would help.  Just give a suitable page/ref.  It's condition may help as well.  ie: Weathered, cracked, UV damage, burns, melts, etc..Was there any other material at all found with it?  Metal, rubber, plastic, etc?  It wouldn't be beyond reason to think that metal and large portions were either scavenged or reclaimed from a wreck with the relatively worthless and completely unusable insulation being left behind. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

aussiebloke · Nov 25, 2008

G' Day and good morning FolksALP yes that's where I'm going, it either;  really did explode in the air or was planted there.Mind you, you are very cruel in making me read the book aarrr-gggaaaiin but I will do so to quote exactly what was written.However I got more out of interpreting what the pictures were telling me than from reading the book, then more recently found a bit on Dr Hickie's report on the material.He study the material for the other camp which was Bill Chalker, Paul Hebron, (Ufologist) Who were not happy with John Pinkney's version of the material the preliminary research was funded by Dick Smith whom I admire.I just appears that as soon as Dr Hickie (Lecturer in Textiles at a UNI) found nothing out of the ordinary and seems to have only concentrated on the cloth (composition of the glass fibre, weight diameter type of thing) can't find whether he analyzed the resin except he states there is this carbonized material stuck to the pieces.That seems to be it everybody picked up there bat and ball and went home.John sent an advanced copy to Bill and as a chemist wasn't happy with Johns conclusionsBill says Paul then went to the Frasers to retrieve some material which he did which is what Dr Hickie analyzed all funded by Dick.However this says to me (an assumption I know) that John was not going to give a sample to Dicks camp for testing and I'm assuming Paul being a researcher when visiting Mrs Fraser would have interviewed her and found John's account in the book is correct because Bill has not said otherwise which I'm sure he would have.John had some friends in the science field and he "showed" them pictures and and pieces of the material but I don't think any of them got a piece to test.However the Don which all this hinges on said the test he had done in America on a sample showed "unknowns."Long time ago my wife and I watched a TV show where all the way through the show they show you a mystery object used in the past,  and ask the panel "what is it?" "What was it used for?" it got us hooked trying to work out what it was used for, at the end of the show the presenter says, "Give up? It is a" and right then there was a black out.This material is having the same effect on me not knowing.Better go AussieblokePS. Far as I know/read just this material and regarding some one collecting the metal parts for scrap the problem I see with that (and you are not to know) is that it was apparently spread over a three K ms area and it is not until the fire that went through the area that you could see the bulk of the material and by then the RAAF was involved and couldn't find any metal parts that might have come from say an aircraft.Meaning for some one to "find" remove every piece of metal/components and the like I find it hard to consider.Gawd that was a long PS.

a_lost_packet_ · Nov 26, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>...Long time ago my wife and I watched a TV show where all the way through the show they show you a mystery object used in the past,  and ask the panel "what is it?" "What was it used for?" it got us hooked trying to work out what it was used for, at the end of the show the presenter says, "Give up? It is a" and right then there was a black out.This material is having the same effect on me not knowing...</DIV>There was a show I used to watch that did the same thing.  Contestants would have to guess what the object was and then it was revealed at the end.  (Game show on USA television, don't remember the name though.)  I loved that show!

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>.Gawd that was a long PS.       Posted by aussiebloke</DIV>Don't worry about that!  Thanks for the info!  I don't have any other source for info about this material than you atm.  So, if I'm going to try to find it, I have to get the info somehow, right?

I'll look around on the net on this subject and, if nothing illuminates the issue, I'll check the local used book store.  I'm pretty sure it's probably some aircraft insulation or insulation left as bomb/practice-bomb debris from military training/testing.It wasn't uncommon for simple military debris to get trucked out and dumped in a remote area of a military base way back when.  If the land in question was ever physically part of a military test/base area and not just near one, that could be a good clue.An analysis of the resin should also give a good clue regarding the origins.  If anyone has done one, I don't see why it couldn't help pinpoint the source.  Manufacturers/contractors in the field would know who uses what or what specs were used in the past, etc.. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

a_lost_packet_ · Nov 26, 2008

This is probably it:Pic of Aeroweb core with aluminum skin (Tycore) <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/3/3/132939f5-6779-4bf1-834d-99aadad436b7.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  "Aeroweb" adveritsement History of compositesAero Research Ltd. Founded in 1934 by Dr. Norman de Bruyne, a physicist/engineer and don at Cambridge University, Aero Research Ltd. (Duxford, England) pioneers new applications in aircraft adhesives and impregnated fabrics. Among the company's many advances are its Aerolite, Araldite and Redux® adhesives, its Aeroweb honeycomb core, its Fiberdux glass fiber epoxy Prepregs and its Fibrelam® panels. Aero Research Ltd. is acquired by Ciba in 1947.  Ases Aviation page on Hexcel composites http://www.hexcelcomposites.com/ (Down atm)Construction of Radar dome using Aeroweb Mention of historical use of Aeroweb construction used in aircraft here.   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

aussiebloke · Nov 27, 2008

G' Day and good morning Folks.Thanks ALP for those links I started there I've gone full circle now some of those links (Hexcel for one) the sites gives the impression they are turning the stuff out on a large scale sort of thing in the 50/60s  it is only when you go looking for the stuff you find it hard to even find being used in sheet form.That is why I like finding "old salts" people who were there in the industry at the time. I like the radar dome concept in your link where the honeycomb material is the structural strength there is no point in using it otherwise.Come at it another way if the strength is in the metal hull/fuselage/wings whatever ribs/bulkheads/metalskins are carrying the load etc, then insulation  from heat/cold/noise tends to be in a blanket form where  there is no need for strength further more where extreme heat is concerned asbestos blanketing was used before glassfibreIn the auto trade when they banned the use of asbestos and started covering red hot pipes with glassfibre it was no as good, did the job though but the light woven asbestos cloth was better and most likely cheaper. Don't get me onto brakes, clutches, though.Re-reading those links though I realized I haven't covered helicopters and I will get in contact with company's like Hexcel eventually just wanted more of a direction before I did.Which reminds me I'll try the RAAF, and see what they found out.Regarding the resin yes if a piece was given to a chemist "working" in the fibreglass/resin industry (their laboratory) they would be able to "read" its make up and what kind of application it was made for. This sending mysterious material to some academic/scientist whoever I find annoying you don't take your car to a scientist in some field or other to have it fix you take it to a motor mechanic, err, a good one of course.Thanks againCheers AussieblokeA little PS I thought keeping this thread going as long as it has that some one out there might have gone jump on board and said; I known what that stuff is, its----------

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