CEV/Orion mock-up Size (picture)

[radarredux]

I found the following ad for the Boeing and Northrup Grumman CEV effort in the latest AW&ST (It is actually a full page ad, but I have cropped and shrunk it). It shows a mock-up of the CEV with people standing in front of it; with the people there you really get a feel for the size of this capsule. It really is quite large.

 

[elguapoguano]

Anvel, I think you are overthinking it bro. It's a "full page ad" I'm sure they are just trying to illiustrate how large the vehicle actually is... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#ff0000"><u><em>Don't let your sig line incite a gay thread ;>)</em></u></font> </div>

 

[nacnud]

It might not have anything to do with the gravity on accent or decent but if you look at the windows and to orentation of the seats it could be said that on orbit the agreed 'down' could be as shown in the picture.<br /><br />

 

[PistolPete]

I've seen that ad in Aviation Week for the past several months now. I've also seen a number of Apollo capsules, I even got to crawl inside one of the boiler-plate mock-ups once (cramped). Seeing that ad makes you realise exactly how big a 5 meter diamater capsule is. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[nacnud]

Yes it's definatly a capusle shape, nasa is designing the capsule the contractors have to show the ablity to build the thing to the required budget.

 

[mooware]

I'd like to see a visual of a size comparison between this and Apollo<br /><br />

 

[j05h]

> I can't imagine why they would have more than one access hatch other than the one in the docking cone.<br /><br />equipment bay? parachute hatch?<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[bdewoody]

I've read all the pros and cons but I still can't help but think a capsule is a GIANT leap backwards. We've already been there and done that. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em><font size="2">Bob DeWoody</font></em> </div>

 

[no_way]

Thats like saying : you know the new Lexus ? it has FOUR WHEELS *yawn*. thats so twentieth century, been there, done that.

 

[PistolPete]

This is true for LEO, but the best shape for a spacecraft returnig from the moon is still a capsule. That's just physics. NASA isn't trying to make a six-wheeled Lexus, it just wants a reliable, go anywhere Willies Jeep. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[bdewoody]

That's why I drive a 1991 Camaro. Why buy something new when it ain't different!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em><font size="2">Bob DeWoody</font></em> </div>

 

[tomnackid]

Every mock up and drawing I've seen has two access hatches set directly across from each other. I think this has something to do with having enough emergency egress for a full crew compliment.

 

[yoda9999]

Is that ad showing something real or a CGI/photshop of the CEV?

 

[qso1]

That looks real to me. And they did build a mockup of the CEV awhile back. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[no_way]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>That's why I drive a 1991 Camaro. Why buy something new when it ain't different!!<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Yeah ? thats entirely off topic but i was driving the exact same thing for three years, eventually got tired of it falling apart on me at critical moments and i sold it last year.<br /><br /><br />

 

[PistolPete]

I thought it was kind of interesting that in the full page version of this ad, you can see that the entire capsule (at least the white part) is covered with fabric insulating blankets. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[tomnackid]

There is no plan to have access to the opposite side of the CEV from the LUT. There is only one ingress/egress hatch.<br />------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />Nevertheless all of the mockups that I have seen so far show 2 hatches on opposite sides of the capsule. Maybe this is just for the convenience of the mock up builders, but they make them appear as if they intend them to be actual hatches.

 

[docm]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>mooware said;<br /><br />I'd like to see a visual of a size comparison between this and Apollo<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Here's a list & pic I ran into online that covers that comparison plus a few more;<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><b>Apollo:</b> 6.2 cu/meters<br /><b>Soyuz:</b> 9 cu/meters<br /><b>CEV/Orion:</b> 18.6 cu/meters<br /><b>Kliper (Russia - proposed):</b> 20 cu/meters<br /><b>Space Shuttle:</b> 71.5 cu/meters<br /><br /><b>TransHab (NASA - cancelled):</b> 25 x 27 feet (7.6 x 8.2 meters); central core water blankets for emergency radiation shielding only.<br /><br /><b>Bigelow Nautilus:</b> 45 x 22 feet (13.7 x 6.7 meters); 50,000 pounds (22,675 kg); 11,650 cu/ft (330 cu/meters); outer wall water blankets 2.5 inches (6.35 cm) thick for full time radiation shielding.<br /><br /><b>ISS:</b> When assembly is complete the ISS will have a pressurized volume of ~1,000 cu/meters and a mass of ~400,000 kg. 3 Nautilus modules would have a pressurized volume of 990 cu/meters and a mass of just 68,025 kg + the connecting hub<br /><br /><b>Bigelow "Space Hotel":</b> up to 6 Nautilus modules providing a pressurized volume of 1,980 cu/meters and weighing 136,050 kg, only 1/3 the mass of the ISS.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote> <br /><br />Image;<br /><br />http://digitalvideo.8m.net/spaceshipsm.jpg <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[qso1]

I would have posted a comparison myself since I do have my own 3D model of the Apollo capsule. But I havn't had access to my computer lately. Too many things going on but maybe I can post a comparison later.<br /><br />You data tells the story pretty well. The CEV appears to me to be nearly twice the size of an Apollo capsule. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[barrykirk]

Well.... a B-707 has a similar shape to the B-7E7...<br /><br />Been there done that, the shape will change when the technology requires it to do so.<br /><br />It shouldn't be the other way around.

 

[toothferry]

<font color="yellow">caliak: "Is it definitely a capsule shape? Some Lockheed martin info still has a lifting body shaped craft. " </font><br />Yeah, the capsule desing actually provides a bit of "lift" in the same way the Apollo capsule provided some "lift". Reintering Earths atmosphere from HEO is different than LEO. The speed is much greater and a standard capsul, for instance Mercury (or Vostok) would have burned up (as well as the Shuttle). Those shaped capsules actually will allow for a tiny bit of steering in the upper reaches of the atmosphere to burn off more heat before plowing directly into it and burning up. Without this "lifting" capibility the Apollo Capsule wouldn't have made it to the moon and back and its one reason Apollo beat the Soyuz in the first moon fly-around on Christmas.<br /><br />Like PistolPete said, capsules are best. <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" /> Reentry physics.<br /><br />(btw, Im not a rocket scientist and I didn't stay at a Holliday Inn Express either) <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br /><font color="yellow">PistolPete: "This is true for LEO, but the best shape for a spacecraft returnig from the moon is still a capsule. That's just physics. NASA isn't trying to make a six-wheeled Lexus, it just wants a reliable, go anywhere Willies Jeep. "</font>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

<font color="yellow">Seeing that ad makes you realise exactly how big a 5 meter diamater capsule is. </font><br /><br /> Where did you get the 5 meter figure? It looks at least 3 times taller than the two tallest guys standing there. My guess is 6 to 6.5 meters in diameter. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[nibb31]

Maybe it's a mockup on the original 5.50m design. The current 5m figure is pretty well documented.<br /><br />An average individual is approx 1m75, so 3 times that is 5m25. There's nothing wrong with the scale on that pic.

 

[PistolPete]

The capsule spins slighly to stablize it and to help with the lift. It is the same effect that you get when you skip a stone off a pond. The stone is stablized by the spin and hits the water at the correct angle of attack to get lift. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Okay, I'll go for the 1.75 meters for the two guys, but a little calculus with my thumb makes that ship more than 3 times taller. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>