CNN: China's ambitious plans in space

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docm

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Link....<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><b>Story Highlights<br /><br /><i>*China embarking on a space program the world has not seen since the 1960's<br />*Chinese may be interested in mining helium-3 -- a powerful, potential fuel source<br />*China developing a new rocket with enough thrust to put a space station into orbit<br />*They are planning a televised space walk by three taikonauts next year</i></b><br /><br />(CNN) -- When China's lunar orbiter blasted off last month, there was not a cheer or smile or a "whoo-haaa" to be had in mission control.<br /><br /> Perhaps because for the government scientists, it was just another small step in an ambitious space program which could ultimately see a Chinese space station orbiting the Earth, a Chinese moon colony and a joint China-Russia explorer on Mars.<br /><br />If all goes well, and so far it has, the Chang'e 1 will spend the next year orbiting the moon, mapping the surface and looking for resources. Next, the Chinese hope to send an unmanned rover to the moon by 2012, with a robotic mission to bring back samples by 2017. Officials have recently backpedaled from goals of putting a taikonaut (the Chinese version of an astronaut or cosmonaut) on the moon by 2020, but analysts believe that is still a pressing ambition.<br /><br />"If China can go to the moon, eventually with a manned program, it will represent the ultimate achievement for China in making itself essentially the second most important space power, accomplishing what even the Soviets had not," says Dean Cheng, a China military analyst for CNA, a private research corporation<br /><br />According to Cheng, the Chinese are now embarking on a systematic space program the world has not seen since the 1960's and for the first time since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the United States is facing real competition. That may explain why the h</p></blockquote> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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3488

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Hi vishniac,<br /><br />I'm afraid it does not work like that. To lift three times as much mass, requires <br />NINE times as much thrust. It it proportional to the square of the difference,<br />i.e three times heavier payload means three times three.<br /><br />A launcher three times more powerful, can lift a payload only 33% heavier than a <br />booster only one third as powerful.<br /><br />If I am wrong, please chime in someone, but I am sure that I am not.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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3488

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Perhaps I was not quite correct there shuttle_guy, thank you for your answer.<br /><br />I agree, I doubt the new Chinese booster will be three times more powerful than anything else,<br />rather than three times more powerful than anything they currently have.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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no_way

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If i'd had a dollar for every time when i come across an article about big imminent lunar or martian exploration plans by Chinese or Russians, i could buy my own way to the moon before any of them actually get there.
 
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holmec

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>I suspect some information was lost in translation.<br /><p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Yeah, it probably got lodged between the journalist's ears.<br /><br />Reading between the lines I suspect they mean Soyuz class, Ares I class, Ariane V class. They are similar in lifting power. I would assume that their rocket the've been using is similar to Soyuz for launch.<br /><br />To me that would make sense since comparison would be akin to the difference between Saturn I and Saturn V. <br /><br />So apart from numbers this seems to be a cognitive construct that favors China's program. IE its propaganda. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
 
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3488

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Thanks holmec.<br /><br />I think shuttle_guy & myself were coming to the conclusion that the journalist involved<br />was not the sharpest knife in the drawer. <img src="/images/icons/crazy.gif" /><br /><br />This does appear to favour the Chinese propaganda machine, however, if something <br />useful does come out of it, then good.<br /><br />BTW, I forgot to thank docm, for starting this thread. It is very interesting indeed. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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holmec

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>We hear all the time about that Helium-3 but, apart from fusion test plants themselves like ITER, has there already been experiments involving Helium-3 or is it just wishful thinking that it could give energy?<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Helium-3 is so scarce on Earth that Helium-3 from the moon would probably be viable for research. But knowing communist countries, they probably want to go from research straight into production.<br /><br />In the US, there are scientists and engineers that say it would work. But there's not a push for it. Or at least like in China. <br /><br />If you recall the time just before Sputnik got into orbit, US was not looking at rockets to deliver nukes but planes. We had everything to research it except for the will to do it. We got that will real quick after Sputnik launched.<br /><br />This seems like a similar situation with the lunar Helium-3 and fusion. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
 
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holmec

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By the way the author, John Vause is not even American.<br /><br />Here is his wiki page.<br /><br />So it would make sense that he's giving China some free propaganda. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
 
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3488

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BTW he is a journalist, & does not reflect the intelligence of the people of Australia,<br />so really he is an embarassment to that great country.<br /><br />China though, is definately building up its capabilities. To exactly what long term end, I think is still<br />a major unknown factor.<br /><br />We'll see in the fullness of time.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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vulture2

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NASA is simply playing the China card in an attempt to get a blank check from Congress. If China were in a race, they would obviously be launching more than one manned flight a year. A race would have no possible benefit for China - if they lose they would look second-class, if they win they would irritate their biggest customer. The objective of their human spaceflight and unmanned lunar programs is to market their technology and commercial space capabilities, so they have chosen a pace just sufficient to keep them in the news.<br /><br />As a Chinese friend says, "If you want to race to the moon, go ahead. We will not race with you. You will be racing by yourself."<br />
 
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nuaetius

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<p><hr />NASA is simply playing the China card in an attempt to get a blank check from Congress. If China were in a race, they would obviously be launching more than one manned flight a year. A race would have no possible benefit for China - if they lose they would look second-class, if they win they would irritate their biggest customer. The objective of their human spaceflight and unmanned lunar programs is to market their technology and commercial space capabilities, so they have chosen a pace just sufficient to keep them in the news. <p><hr /><br /><br />I think you are reading the Chinese as if they where like the Western nations. China is trying to get back to what they where before the Ming dynasty ran then broke and then sold them to the Brits. They want to be the great central empire again. Chinese leadership have 97% of their history tried to keep the nation and culture ahead of everyone else. I think their goal is to be ahead of everyone else in everything again. Heck they have managed to balance human freedoms and state control for 20 years now without any major problems. <br /><br />Remember that when you talk about the human race, only 1/3 of us are not Indian or Chinese. <br /></p></p>
 
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chrisinastrangeland

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>I think their goal is to be ahead of everyone else in everything again. Heck they have managed to balance human freedoms and state control for 20 years now without any major problems.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Except for the odd genocide or two every decade, I completely agree.
 
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nuaetius

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[/q]Except for the odd genocide or two every decade, I completely agree.<p><hr /><br /><br />I know they have a pretty nasty human rights record, and tiananmen square was a media fiasco, but I didn't know about any genocides. What race and how many?</p>
 
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drwayne

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Please keep in mind folks that M&L is not the place for a discussion of politics. Try to keep to a discussion of plans, not the virtues of the nations involved.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>
 
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vulture2

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My point is that it's not very likely that He-3 fusion is even practical, and in the unlikely event that it is, either D-T fusion or H-Br fusion will probably prove more practical. China is not even concerned about CO2 emission, let alone storing waste fission products. They certainly are not going to race us to the moon for helium 3. If we want human spaceflight, we need to make it practical and safe, not waste our time looking for a magic payload that will justify the current exorbitant costs, or a wasteful international competition that will ultimately undermine our credibility.
 
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