Controversy over giant telescope roils astronomy conference in Hawaii

Jan 16, 2020
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They should just build the TMT observatory on La Palma on Canary Islands where people and government support building it. This way the astronomy wins and the wishes of natives are respected. Win-win.
 
Dec 19, 2019
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The real race for clear and higher resolution images in the observation of space and deep space should be the establishment of a moon base research station for telescopes, radio telescopes and the Very Large Telescope Interferometer imaging. As portended in the book, Shadow-Forge Revelations, providing for deep space exploration on the far side of Earth's moon would be unmatched by any land base or orbiting station/laboratory. Who will be first!
 
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Jan 16, 2020
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They should just build the TMT observatory on La Palma on Canary Islands where people and government support building it. This way the astronomy wins and the wishes of natives are respected. Win-win.
La Palma would work, but it's not as good a site as Maunakea, so I don't know if I'd call it win-win. Still, it's probably the best option for coming as close as possible to making everybody happy. It's a shame they can't get the natives to agree, considering that they're sitting on one of the few remaining good sites on the whole planet (for a telescope like this, I mean), but it is their island.
 
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TPG

Jan 16, 2020
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No, La Palma is a wretched site for the TMT because:
1. It has relatively poor seeing, so the telescope would not be able to produce high-resolution, high-sensitivity images. The TMT Adaptive Optics system would not perform well.
2. It is too low. That makes it too warm and it has too much water vapor above it. That would give it especially poor performance at infrared wavelengths, where larer telescopes would normally have a great advantage over smaller ones. You would effectively lose at least 1 octave (K + L + M bands) of wavelength coverage compared to Maunakea, and performance at shorter wavelengths would be compromised too.
3. It is too far North. This makes it a poor site for observing the Galactic Center, the planets in our Solar System, and Souther star formation regions that would all be done much better on Maunakea

On another note, the TMT consortium probably would fall apart if Maunakea was not the site - Japan and Canada would pull out. I think that they made a strategic error by saying that La Palma was an acceptable backup site.
 
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Jan 16, 2020
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Just build it. These protesters are nothing more than self aggrandized squatters.
"Squatters"? Native Hawaiians were there FIRST, until racist Caucasians like you stole their land. That makes scientists the squatters. If Native Hawaiians tried to build a telescope on the top of the Sistine Chapel, you thieves of Native sacred lands would throw fits & proclaim yourselves martyrs of your bloody god. Go build your telescope somewhere else. This is exactly the kind of thing that gives scientists a bad name. You have no respect for others, especially Native peoples.
 

Sw4

Jan 17, 2020
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"Squatters"? Native Hawaiians were there FIRST, until racist Caucasians like you stole their land. That makes scientists the squatters. If Native Hawaiians tried to build a telescope on the top of the Sistine Chapel, you thieves of Native sacred lands would throw fits & proclaim yourselves martyrs of your bloody god. Go build your telescope somewhere else. This is exactly the kind of thing that gives scientists a bad name. You have no respect for others, especially Native peoples.
First, assuming he’s white is the most racist thing in here. Second, by your rationale you’re a thief too because wherever you live also at one time had native peoples on it.

This mountain already has multiple observatories on it per the article. It’s hardly undeveloped in that sense. For every native Hawaiian that does not want this telescope, there are hundreds more who want it, as it undoubtedly enriches their lives in ways any large project does. This is how they were able to gain all the permissions and work through the legal framework in the first place.
 
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Jan 17, 2020
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"Squatters"? Native Hawaiians were there FIRST, until racist Caucasians like you stole their land. That makes scientists the squatters. If Native Hawaiians tried to build a telescope on the top of the Sistine Chapel, you thieves of Native sacred lands would throw fits & proclaim yourselves martyrs of your bloody god. Go build your telescope somewhere else. This is exactly the kind of thing that gives scientists a bad name. You have no respect for others, especially Native peoples.
"Squatters"? Native Hawaiians were there FIRST, until racist Caucasians like you stole their land. That makes scientists the squatters. If Native Hawaiians tried to build a telescope on the top of the Sistine Chapel, you thieves of Native sacred lands would throw fits & proclaim yourselves martyrs of your bloody god. Go build your telescope somewhere else. This is exactly the kind of thing that gives scientists a bad name. You have no respect for others, especially Native peoples.
Actually, many Native Hawaiians are engaged to make this project happen. Remarks like yours are not helpful at all.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Ms. Case refused to recognize that TMT and the larger astronomy community in Hawaii has made sincere efforts to recognize the larger issues in our community. Education is a problem, poverty another, and there are also health issues. TMT offered numerous times to meet with us and many accepted the invitation and requests were made. For these reasons TMT will be a zero waste facility. The entire building was reconfigured to leave a smaller footprint. A special coating was created so there would be less reflection. All the staff who will work at TMT will be from Hawaii. The construction crew is from Hawaii, they have been waiting for many long months to go to work and build TMT. The Think Fund, through the offices of the Hawaii Community Foundation and Pauahi Foundation offer STEM scholarships to qualified students for higher education, to date 85 students. There are also class room grants, and teachers grants. TMT will sit on a slab of basalt, in the astronomy precinct in the Conservation Resource Subzone that is zoned for astronomy only. Much effort by the University of Hawaii has been made to meet the demands of Ms. Case and her followers. Lands will be returned, obsevatory leases will be reconsidered, more education support for the keiki, this was part of the Malama Maunakea Resolution by the UH BOR. It's time to begin construction. All voices were heard during the CCH and HSC. Many Native Hawaiians see astronomy, TMT as part of our culture. It's not desecration. Rather it is learning, exploration and more.
 
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Jan 17, 2020
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Would it be acceptable to replace an existing telescope on MaunaKea with the TMT? That way it is not taking additional land if it can be accommodated on an existing footprint.
 
Oct 25, 2019
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This is a repeat of the controversy on Mt. Graham in Arizona, which astronomy eventually won over the objections of traditional Apaches. Traditional values are important and must be respected and treasured, but so is furthering mankind's knowledge of the multiverse in which we live. Surely there is a way that traditional values and beliefs can work with astronomers to further the understanding of all of us about where we live and how we came to be.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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For years now the astronomy community on Hawaii Island has been in full silence about the $8B Webb Deep Space Telescope. It seems to solve all the land-use problems and Hawaiiʻs land-use laws are archaic and very poorly administered. It seems to solve the problem of atmospheric distortion. Its data will be available to all researchers and educators. Why are we celebrating?
 
Dec 11, 2019
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"Squatters"? Native Hawaiians were there FIRST, until racist Caucasians like you stole their land. That makes scientists the squatters. If Native Hawaiians tried to build a telescope on the top of the Sistine Chapel, you thieves of Native sacred lands would throw fits & proclaim yourselves martyrs of your bloody god. Go build your telescope somewhere else. This is exactly the kind of thing that gives scientists a bad name. You have no respect for others, especially Native peoples.
I think it is mostly the Christians that are going around taking the Natives way of life with their mind control.

To be the devils advocate . Were the Egyptians racist when they held the Jews in captivity?
 

Dwight Huth

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Oct 22, 2019
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Is it possible that those disagreeing with the telescope are simply disagreeing because they nothing better to do? I have dealt with such people who can make an argument because of a perceived higher art than thou aspect of their life.


Here's an idea, build the observatory 100 feet away from the sacred place on foundation that is built into the side of the mountain. Rent rooms out to help pay for the observatory, problem solved.
 
Jan 20, 2020
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May 8, 2020
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Heated conversations at the American Astronomical Society's January meeting are usually about stars and galaxies, distant worlds and elaborate calculations.

Controversy over giant telescope roils astronomy conference in Hawaii : Read more
you can put me down for the affirmative ,yes dept. of must have a giant telescope.
Ok look if we are to start being serious about what space is, we need to know what is going on . I would ask for a 100mtre or 200mtre telescope at least . If we don't know what going on we are in a position of regret prior to everything we do and earth cannot be placed in harms way. it is just good responsible direction. and finally I would love to allow the negatives to say something but before that we are under an orange sun , the next phase is red. We had our blue our green our yellow and we are at orange, there is a time on this world when in this point in time that humanity said we understand. what we must do for the future of our species.
 

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