DAWN mission to orbit 1 Ceres & 4 Vesta.

[scottb50]

Which countries could afford a mission like this? >>><br /><br />Probably only one. But we have all this political nonsense going on.<br /><br />Can it be done privately? I think it has to be done privately, NASA couldn't come close to doing it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[pathfinder_01]

<br />Okay, let's talk about something else to pass the time. Two questions: <br />“1) What improved images of Ceres and Vesta are we going to have through other means before Dawn arrives?â€<br /><br />I would lay a bet that Dawn would easily out do any images from the ground before it arrives. In addition it carries instruments that would give data that is not able to be generated on the ground. <br /><br /><br /><br />2) If another country decided to make a quicker and easier probe to simply use chemical rockets to get to Ceres and enter into orbit, how much would that cost? Which countries could afford a mission like this?<br /><br />The mission is meant to do both Ceres and Vesta. To my knowledge getting into and out of orbit around two asteroids would take a large amount of fuel. In fact if this mission is successful it will be the first time in history that a craft has left earth, gone into orbit around one object, left orbit and gotten into orbit around another object. <br /><br />Also at the moment the delays are not due to the probe, but due to the launch vehicle and it’s requirements(Good weather, tracking ships ect). <br /><br /><br />The mission was shut down due to going over budget but then again in a sense that is NASA fault. NASA has different types of missions with different kinds of funding. Dawn was low balled into a lower funding category so that it would at least get the funding to fly. NASA at the moment prefers low to medium cost missions over big expensive ones(like Cassini ). When it took more money than the category allowed, it triggered the shutdown so that it could be reviewed.<br /><br />One of the advantages of the ion engine is the fact that this probe has a very large launch window compared to a chemical rocket. Although at the moment I am wondering if that is currently playing in it’s disfavor allowing NASA to push it back further with little consequence. <br />

 

[jimfromnsf]

"Can it be done privately? I think it has to be done privately, NASA couldn't come close to doing it."<br /><br />you're fooling yourself

 

[bobblebob]

"three-billion-mile mission, reaching Vesta in 2011 and Ceres in 2015."<br /><br />How long would it take to receive data from Dawn with 3 billions miles between it and Earth?

 

[brellis]

It has to <i>travel</i> 3 billion miles in orbit around the sun to reach its destinations, but it won't be that far from earth. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[jimfromnsf]

The path Dawn would take to visit both asteroids is 3 billion miles, not the distance between it and earth

 

[Boris_Badenov]

The average distance for Ceres orbit is a little over 400 million miles from the Sun. Ceres closest approach to Earth is around 150 million miles. Dawn will make at least 3 full Solar orbits before reaching Ceres. That is where the 3 billion mile trip comes in.<br /> Even if it were possible to make the trip in a "straight line" the trip would be longer than the 150 million miles separation because the spacecraft would travel a parabola (curved trajectory). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[mithridates]

That reminds me, I was also thinking about the similarities and differences between a rover mission on Ceres compared to the ones on Mars. Here's a list of differences I came up with:<br /><br />-Solar constant on Ceres is lower than that of Mars. On the other hand, the day is under 10 hours long and a rover wouldn't have to survive through as long a night. There are also almost no seasons on Ceres and no dust storms to worry about blocking the sun.<br />-Gravity is one-tenth that of Mars, and a rover could be built with much lighter material. Landing could be accomplished in a different way given the lower gravity and lack of an atmosphere, more similar to a docking than a landing.<br />-More temperature extremes on Ceres due to the lack of an atmosphere, so a rover there would have to be more well-protected.<br /><br />What else? Given the weak gravity, a kind of hopping machine might be preferable to one that drives. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>----- </p><p>http://mithridates.blogspot.com</p> </div>

 

[holmec]

Bummer of a reschedule. I was looking forward to this launch since I had Monday off. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Here's the relevant part giving the reasons for giving up on the 4 day window in July and delaying until September.<br /><br />""Primary reasons for the move were a combination of highly limited launch opportunities for Dawn in July and the potential impact to launch preparations for the upcoming Phoenix Mars Lander mission, set for early August." <br /><br />The alignment of the planets dictates a tight August 3 to August 24 window for the Phoenix liftoff to happen. If the craft doesn't launch within those three weeks, the next shot at Mars won't come until 2009. <br /><br />"A September launch for Dawn maintains all of the science mission goals a July launch would have provided," the NASA spokesman said. <br /><br />An additional complicating factor for Dawn is its launcher's second stage. A propellant blend of nitrogen tetroxide and hydrazine fuel must be loaded into the Delta vehicle two days prior to liftoff. But the corrosive nature of the rocket fuel limits the amount of time the stage remains suitable for flight -- roughly 40 days -- after the propellant is pumped aboard. Proceeding with the fueling for a launch next weekend and then possibly experiencing weather or technical delays that pushed the flight past the July 19 window cutoff date would have added further problems and cost to the Dawn mission. "<br /><br />MW<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[j05h]

<i>> Can it be done privately? </i><br /><br />A private mission to Ceres would probably culminate in a claim-stake, maybe for the whole planetoid. SpaceDev's original project, NEAP, was planned to do that on a smaller asteroid. Anyone trying to make a Ceres mission really pay for itself is going to set themselves up as the owner/operator there, because that will continue to pay long after any science data is sold. This goes back to the 'space science first' thread that has been running, too. There are better and smarter ways to do things now.<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

That's the dream. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Of course, the first company that does that will open up a whole 'nother can of worms with regards to the legality of such a stake. With whom do you register your claim on an extraterrestrial body? There is no precedent. It's a can that ultimately will need to be opened, of course, and there are a lot of questions to answer (more than are appropriate to go into in this thread). But I suspect that has stayed a lot of possible prospectors from staking out claims until they are in a position to really do something with their claims. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Hi J05H.<br /><br />yes that would probably be true. If it was done privately, it would be for money only. <br /><br />Perhaps there would be some science involved, but only for the company &<br />shareholders only would see it.<br /><br />Hi CalliArcale.<br /><br />It would open a very nasty can of worms. It would have to be regulated.<br /><br />Just because Bigelow, etc litter LEO with expensive, useless toys & have deep pockets,<br />does not mean they own space. <br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[deapfreeze]

" Just because they have deep pockets, does not mean they own space. "<br /><br />I agree with you on this but as soon as one of these companies land on another planet game is on. Space real estate will take off like crazy. No science involved unless a research company wants to buy some space real estate.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#0000ff"><em>William ( deapfreeze ) Hooper</em></font></p><p><font size="1">http://deapfreeze-amateur-astronomy.tk/</font></p><p> </p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

I don't yet consider two successful module launches littereing just yet. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />And they are in very high (LEO wise) orbits, so are not likely to be a problem for the much lower ISS, etc. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Latest:<br /><br />07.13.07<br />George H. Diller<br />Kennedy Space Center, Fla.<br />321-867-2468<br />STATUS REPORT: ELV-071307<br />EXPENDABLE LAUNCH VEHICLE STATUS REPORT<br /><br />Mission: Dawn <br />Location: Pad 17-B <br />Launch Pad: 17-B <br />Launch Vehicle: Delta II 7925-H <br />Launch Timeframe: September <br /><br />Dawn remains atop the Delta II launch vehicle at Pad 17-B. The <br />spacecraft will be removed from the launch vehicle and returned to a <br />payload processing facility late next week.<br /><br />Program managers are working to determine a specific launch date based <br />on the launch window for the mission's science objectives, the <br />availability of the Eastern Range, and the necessary tracking, data <br />and telemetry support.<br /><br />Previous status reports are available on the Web at:<br /><br />http://www.nasa.gov/centers/kennedy/launchingrockets/status/2007 <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

07.20.07<br />George H. Diller<br />Kennedy Space Center, Fla.<br />321-867-2468<br /><br />STATUS REPORT: ELV-072007<br />EXPENDABLE LAUNCH VEHICLE STATUS REPORT<br /><br />Mission: Dawn <br />Location: Pad 17-B <br />Launch Pad: 17-B <br />Launch Vehicle: Delta II 7925-H <br />Launch Timeframe: September <br /><br />Dawn remains atop the Delta II launch vehicle at Pad 17-B. The <br />spacecraft will be removed from the launch vehicle on Saturday, July <br />21, and returned to the Astrotech payload processing facility near <br />NASA's Kennedy Space Center.<br /><br />A firm date for launch is still being determined based on the launch <br />window for the science of the mission, the availability of the <br />Eastern Range and the necessary tracking, data and telemetry support. <br />The launch opportunity extends from Sept. 7 to Oct. 15. <br /><br />Previous status reports are available on the Web at:<br /><br />http://www.nasa.gov/centers/kennedy/launchingrockets/status/2007 <br /><br />To subscribe to the list, send a message to: <br />ksc-subscribe@newsletters.nasa.gov<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

07.27.07<br />George H. Diller<br />Kennedy Space Center, Fla.<br />321-867-2468<br />George.H.Diller@nasa.gov<br />STATUS REPORT: ELV-072707<br />EXPENDABLE LAUNCH VEHICLE STATUS REPORT<br /><br />Mission: Dawn <br />Location: Astrotech payload processing facility <br />Launch Pad: 17-B <br />Launch Vehicle: Delta II 7925-H <br />Launch Timeframe: Sept. 7 - Oct. 15 <br /><br />A firm date for launch is still being determined based on the launch <br />window for the science of the mission, the availability of the <br />Eastern Range and the necessary tracking, data and telemetry support. <br />The launch of Dawn is currently expected to occur no later than Sept. <br />26; however, a launch date as early as Sept. 7 is being preserved in <br />planning schedules.<br /><br />Dawn was removed from the launch vehicle on Sunday, July 22. The <br />spacecraft was returned to the Astrotech payload processing facility <br />near Kennedy Space Center at 7:30 a.m. that day. No processing <br />activities are currently scheduled. <br /><br />Previous status reports are available on the Web at:<br /><br />http://www.nasa.gov/centers/kennedy/launchingrockets/status/2007 <br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Thanks MeteorWayne.<br /><br />You are a really good pal.<br /><br />You have confirmed what I hoped, that NASA is not using this as an excuse to cancel.<br /><br />A September, 7 launch would be very good news.<br /><br />DAWN, will really break new ground in our exploration of the Solar System.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Looks like launch is still on for: Wednesday 26th September 2007.<br /><br />Lets hope for a repeat of this morning's Mars Phoenix Lander launch.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"Lets hope for a repeat of this morning's Mars Phoenix Lander launch."</font><br /><br />I agree. My name is on this one <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" />. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[3488]

So is mine. What is strange is that the certificates for DAWN are not numbered as they are for Deep Impact, MERs & Phoenix.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

A timely bump, as we're a month away from the scheduled launch, still scheduled for the morning (EDT) of September 26th.. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Thanks MeteorWayne.<br /><br />Yes thats true, one month & counting.<br /><br />Lets hope it is a repeat of that fantastic brilliant launch of Mars Phoenix Lander.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

EXPENDABLE LAUNCH VEHICLE STATUS REPORT<br /><br />Mission: Dawn <br />Location: Astrotech payload processing facility <br />Launch Vehicle: Delta II 7925-H <br />Launch Pad: 17-B <br />Launch Date: Sept. 26, 2007 <br />Launch Window: 7:25 - 7:54 a.m. EDT <br /><br />Engineers loaded liquid oxygen aboard the first stage late last week <br />as a test for first stage components.<br /><br />Dawn spacecraft operational readiness testing is complete.<br /><br />Spacecraft thermal blanket closeout work is being finished today.<br /><br />Technicians will be installing Dawn into the payload canister on Sept. <br />10 for transportation to Launch Complex 17. The spacecraft will be <br />mated to the Delta II rocket at Pad 17-B on Sept. 11.<br /><br />The flight program verification, an integrated launch readiness test <br />with the Dawn spacecraft integrated with the Delta II, is scheduled <br />for Sept. 13.<br /><br />Installation of the payload fairing around the spacecraft is scheduled <br />for Sept. 19. <br /><br />Previous status reports are available on the Web at:<br /><br />http://www.nasa.gov/centers/kennedy/launchingrockets/status/2007 <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>