Deep Impact/EPOXI

MeteorWayne · Jul 4, 2007

I'd vote for imaging the crater at closest approach. Let us increase the return on th original investment of all that kinetic energy. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Jul 4, 2007

I think likewise. A frest impact crater, potentially deep, would be a huge information mine. It would clearly show if the nucleus to that depth is either homegenous or layered? Also any other impact related fractures, etc would also reveal much. If the encounter was very slow, than perhaps both options would be possible to a certain extent. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Jul 4, 2007

YEs, I'd aim for the best images of the crater, and take whatever else we can get, which hopefully will be a lot. Any idea of what the relative speed will be? I haven't seen anything that detailed. PS: The NExT flyby past Tempel 1 is slated for Feb. 14, 2011. Another valentines day encounter (like our visit to the appropriately named Eros <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Jul 4, 2007

I have no idea currently what the encounter speed will be. Will have to look it up. Yes that date is a fluke. As you say the NEAR / Shoemaker arrival at 433 Eros. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

comga · Jul 4, 2007

As adastragrl (Elizabeth) says, the crater may not be in the sun light part of the nucleus. And given the 41 hour rotation, it won't rotate significantly in the small time when the images are large enough to see details. The approach speed is not changeable by a significant amount. The "season" on Tempel 1 may be determinable, so we could rule OUT the crater being illuminated. However, the rotation period is not known with infinite precision. Therefore, the rotational position, the "time of day" on the nucleus, cannot be extrapolated from the position during the Deep Impact encounter. It might be possible to determine it from the light curve, but it might not, and by the time the light curve would be easily observed from Stardust it would be too late to modify the encounter time. There is also not a lot of fuel on board, so they can't make big velocity changes. Therefore, it is hard to imagine any ability to time the encounter to image the crater. However, as adastragrl says, viewing either side results in welcome new data. Either we see what has been seen and look for changes, or see what has not been seen and look for new features and fill in the shape model. Does anyone know the encounter distance (probably limited by the rate limits for tracking the nucleus) from which we can calculate the limiting resolution? Doe anyone know that limiting resolution? Does anyone know the distance from the sun at the encounter, and how that compares to the distance during the Wild 2 encounter? That may have some effect on the imaging. Also, keep in mind that the Stardust Navigation Camera is small and is not in the best shape. While the Deep Impact High Resolution Instrument images need to be compensated for defocus, Stardust Nav Cam images need to be processed to remove the hazy background from the contaminated detector window. Of course, the resulting images from both are still spectacular.

MeteorWayne · Jul 4, 2007

"The approach speed is not changeable by a significant amount. " The change in approach speed would be insignifigant with enough time for tweaking. A few mm/sec would suffice at this time, 3 1/2 years in advance. However, as you said, we don't know the rotation period, nor the stability of same this far in advance. So we will have to see. Predictions of the geometry and timing are very premature at this point, though. There are earlier encounters that may change things by days or weeks or months. Give it some time <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

scottb50 · Jul 4, 2007

I would think you could head in the general direction of the comet allowing some tweaking of the actual encounter at a later time. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Jul 4, 2007

Hi Comga, MeteorWayne & Scottb50. Yes you are all correct. I am not sure how NASA came up with the 41 hour rotational period. As you all say, the encounter was very short with Deep Impact. I think that Deep Impact was able to follow the few jets on the comet's surface during approach. They certainly were able to drape a co-ordinate grid onto the nucleus (several images back). This shown very clearly the enormous tilt of the nucleus. Comet Tempel 1 has an axial tilt of about 80 degrees, during the encounter of Deep Impact, it was southern 'Summer', northern 'Winter'. As said, there can be no guarantee that the impact crater formed by Deep Impact will not be in the frozen darkness of a cometary night. I am sure that this will all be researched before hand. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Sep 27, 2007

Thank you very much shuttle_guy. This is a truly good day in the history of the exploration of the so called 'minor bodies' in the solar system. Successful launch of DAWN & now this has been confirmed. NASA must have pinned down Comet Tempel 1's rotational period to be confident in getting good images of the crater created by the impactor from Deep Impact. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Sep 27, 2007

Looks like 2011 will be a very busy and fun year! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Sep 27, 2007

How very true MeteorWayne. It will be. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

comga · Oct 2, 2007

Has anyone heard if Comet Boethin, the main target for the DIXI part of EPOXI, was spotted by Spitzer during the Sept 15 to 20 observation? This would seem to be so critical, yet I have heard nothing. Am I just reading the wrong forums?

3488 · Oct 2, 2007

Hi Comga, There is nothing to report. I have just checked both the Spitzer & Hubble Space Telescope sites & there is absolutely nothing about new observations of Comet 85P/Boethin. Either the news has not been released yet, or no observations were made. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

alokmohan · Oct 2, 2007

What made you think so ?

3488 · Oct 2, 2007

Hi alokmohan, I will check later when I am at home, but I think Comet 85P/Boethin was well placed for observations. If so, it would make sense to make the observations now, so we can make the best of Deep Impact's encounter. Hope that helps. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Oct 2, 2007

There are entries in the Spitzer log of 9 observation periods on the 20,21,and 22nd of September. Here's the log entries, the formatting is going to come out lousy, I'll try and clean it up later. TargetName RA(J2000) Dec(J2000) PI ProgName pid AOT min_dur Start Of Execution (UTC) AOR_key AOR_LABEL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 85P-ditha 16:22:50.80 -26: 5:12.00 Lisse EPOXI 460 mipsphot 118.37 2007-09-20 01:05:33.9 24198144 85P-search1a 85P-dithb 16:22:50.80 -26: 5:12.00 Lisse EPOXI 460 mipsphot 99.26 2007-09-20 03:07:22.5 24197888 85P-search1b 85P-0920-10: 16:22:46.02 -26: 5:31.70 Lisse EPOXI 460 mipsphot 36.77 2007-09-20 10:33:07.3 24253696 85P-search2c 85P-ditha 16:22:50.80 -26: 5:12.00 Lisse EPOXI 460 mipsphot 118.37 2007-09-20 15:16:47.8 24196608 85P-search2a 85P-dithb 16:22:50.80 -26: 5:12.00 Lisse EPOXI 460 mipsphot 99.26 2007-09-20 17:18:36.3 24196352 85P-search2b 85P-ditha 16:22:50.80 -26: 5:12.00 Lisse EPOXI 460 mipsphot 118.37 2007-09-21 07:13:03.5 24197120 85P-search3a 85P-dithb 16:22:50.80 -26: 5:12.00 Lisse EPOXI 460 mipsphot 99.26 2007-09-21 09:14:52.0 24196864 85P-search3b 85P-ditha 16:22:50.80 -26: 5:12.00 Lisse EPOXI 460 mipsphot 118.37 2007-09-22 01:46:01.8 24197632 85P-search4a 85P-dithb 16:22:50.80 -26: 5:12.00 Lisse EPOXI 460 mipsphot 99.26 2007-09-22 03:47:52.4 24197376 85P-search4b <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

holmec · Oct 2, 2007

That's really cool. Stardust-NExt? Does that mean they are redoing its software? And the mission costs 15% of a launch? I don't know but that seems high, where does it all go? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off </div>

MeteorWayne · Oct 2, 2007

Pretty much all software is done on the fly nowadays. That's particularly true with Mars missions, when the hardware has to launch at a specific time, every two years. So you send the kids off on their way, then you have another year or so to finish tweaking the software. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

comga · Oct 2, 2007

That is fascinating to see the Spitzer log, but has anyone asked Casey Lisse if he has seen the target? Just not hearing an announcement gives the impression that it was not found. This is of keen importance. AFAIK, they can't target for 85P Boethin unless they see it, and they have to make decisions sometime this week to aim the Earth fly-by. If they can't find Boethin, they go for another comet, which would take an extra year, which would take an extra $8M, which they don't have.

MeteorWayne · Oct 3, 2007

Well, having looked around the Spitzer site for a few hours yesterday, it's not as simple as taking a digital picture with your Sureshot. There's an enormous amount of processing that needs to take place, especially when looking for a small object at a relatively unknown location is a busy field of view. A typical image of that part of the sky shows dozens of asteroids that need to be accounted for, artifacts to be removed, alignment of the precise location of the image, etc,etc,etc,etc. It's been less than 2 weeks since the observations were made, so it's not surprising at all that no announcement has been made. I know patience is tough, but it is a virtue <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Oct 3, 2007

Stardust planned observations of Comet Tempel 1. If successful, Stardust will show both the crater made by Deep Impact's impactor as well as much of the unseen side of the nucleus. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Oct 3, 2007

a paper by a blind meteor observer friend of mine in Icarus regarding the ejecta plume from Deep Impact. another here MW <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Oct 3, 2007

Hi MeteorWayne, I will have to try & read your link tomorrow @ work, as for some reason, the link has crashed & rebooted my computer twice now. Dunno why???? <img src="/images/icons/crazy.gif" /> Do not worry, I know it is not your fault as I know you will not post anything that is unreliable. The fault is at my end for sure. I will read the paper with great interest, as the Deep Impact data still continue to reveal new insights into Comet Tempel 1. Also as the author is your freind, I expect the paper to be very interesting. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> Lets hope the Comet Boethin encounter is still on. The Deep Impact mothership is still in very good shape, so it would be a crap decision to abandon it in space. If Comet Boethin was not found by Spitzer, lets hope another comet or near Earth asteroid can be found instead. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Oct 3, 2007

I double checked both links, they were a little slow to load, perhaps that is the problem They are also .pdf files, which can be a bit cranky at times depending on how up to date your reader is... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

comga · Oct 7, 2007

The Deep Impact instruments (High Resolution Instrument, Medium Resolution Instrument, & Spectral Imaging Module) have been activated and tested. Everything works well. Cursory inspections of the images indicate that they are just as they were left two plus years ago. Things look real good for the EPOCh part of EPOXI It may also be that the "drop dead" date for the Earth fly-by targeting burn has been pushed back by at least two weeks. This gives them more time to find Boethin and decide which way to go. Perhaps we will hear this week.

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