Discovering dark matter - and controling it

[MarcoSpace]

<p>As far I understand Dark Matter is the reason to why galaxies and galaxy clusters are clogging up together, right? If that is the case dark matter has a "pushing" force. </p><p>Now what if we finally discovered it, knew what it was and we started to be able to "control it"? Wouldn that be something? I imagined that by "controling it" we could create, destroy and make it move or make it push to whatever we wish. If that would be the case again, we could make a web of dark matter around the solar system, and boyah, fly our solar system somewhere else (close to another solar system). </p><p>That way we would stay togerher in a bubble of solar system that would be "small" enough to allow us to fly back and forth without having anyone leaving the planet earth only to be heard from again in 2000 years when they reached the closest star. This way we would basically explore the universe as a whole and not having to send representatives. What do you guys think? &nbsp;</p>

 

[origin]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>As far I understand Dark Matter is the reason to why galaxies and galaxy clusters are clogging up together, right? If that is the case dark matter has a "pushing" force. Now what if we finally discovered it, knew what it was and we started to be able to "control it"? Wouldn that be something? I imagined that by "controling it" we could create, destroy and make it move or make it push to whatever we wish. If that would be the case again, we could make a web of dark matter around the solar system, and boyah, fly our solar system somewhere else (close to another solar system). That way we would stay togerher in a bubble of solar system that would be "small" enough to allow us to fly back and forth without having anyone leaving the planet earth only to be heard from again in 2000 years when they reached the closest star. This way we would basically explore the universe as a whole and not having to send representatives. What do you guys think? &nbsp; <br />Posted by MarcoSpace</DIV><br /><br />Actually dark matter is matter that acts just like normal matter, in that it has an attractive force - gravity.&nbsp; The only difference (as far as we know) between dark matter and normal matter is that dark matter is dark. that is it is not detectable optically.</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[hal9891]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Actually dark matter is matter that acts just like normal matter, in that it has an attractive force - gravity.&nbsp; The only difference (as far as we know) between dark matter and normal matter is that dark matter is dark. that is it is not detectable optically.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by origin</DIV></p><p>Yeah, but why matter which is completely transparent is called "dark matter". It doesn't make much sense.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div style="text-align:center"><font style="color:#808080" color="#999999"><font size="1">"I predict that within 100 years computers will be twice as powerful, 10000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them"</font></font><br /></div> </div>

 

[yevaud]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Yeah, but why matter which is completely transparent is called "dark matter". It doesn't make much sense. </p><p> Posted by <em>hal9891</em></DIV><br /></p><p>Dark because it doesn't radiate in any way we can detect; the only method for detecting it is via it's gravitational influence on other, "normal" matter.&nbsp; Such as the anomolous rotation rates of the outer regions of imaged galaxies, which is what keyed Astronomers onto it's existence.</p><p>As to the repulsive force you'd mentioned, that is "Dark Energy," a whole 'nother kettle of Fish.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[hal9891]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Dark because it doesn't radiate in any way we can detect; the only method for detecting it is via it's gravitational influence on other, "normal" matter.&nbsp; Such as the anomolous rotation rates of the outer regions of imaged galaxies, which is what keyed Astronomers onto it's existence.As to the repulsive force you'd mentioned, that is "Dark Energy," a whole 'nother kettle of Fish.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by yevaud</DIV></p><p>Then it should be invisible matter, still can't see how come it's dark.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div style="text-align:center"><font style="color:#808080" color="#999999"><font size="1">"I predict that within 100 years computers will be twice as powerful, 10000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them"</font></font><br /></div> </div>

 

[yevaud]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Then it should be invisible matter, still can't see how come it's dark. </p><p> Posted by hal9891</DIV></p><p>Well, no, as we can still see and measure it's gravitational influence.&nbsp; So it's not entirely "invisible" - merely "Dark," e.g. does not radiate.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[DrRocket]

<p>For a tutorial on dark matter look here:</p><p>http://web.mit.edu/~redingtn/www/netadv/specr/012/012.html</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[hal9891]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Well, no, as we can still see and measure it's gravitational influence.&nbsp; So it's not entirely "invisible" - merely "Dark," e.g. does not radiate.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by yevaud</DIV></p><p>If it wouldn't do any gravitational influence then it would be non-existent matter<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div style="text-align:center"><font style="color:#808080" color="#999999"><font size="1">"I predict that within 100 years computers will be twice as powerful, 10000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them"</font></font><br /></div> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>If it wouldn't do any gravitational influence then it would be non-existent matter <br /> Posted by hal9891</DIV></p><p>The term 'dark matter' is nothing more than scientists taking a little poetic liscense in naming something they don't fully understand.&nbsp; Same with dark energy, black hole, big bang, etc.&nbsp; It's not really meant as a scientific description.&nbsp; Because it doesn't radiate anything in the electromagnetic spectrum (ie, light, xray, uv rays, etc), they just called it dark.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[baulten]

Yeah... as has been said over and over, dark matter is not really much different than regular matter except that it ONLY interacts gravitationally.&nbsp; It does not interact electromagnetically (so we can't observe it over the EM Spectrum), or through the strong and weak nuclear force.&nbsp;

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Yeah... as has been said over and over, dark matter is not really much different than regular matter except that it ONLY interacts gravitationally.&nbsp; It does not interact electromagnetically (so we can't observe it over the EM Spectrum), or through the strong and weak nuclear force.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by baulten</DIV></p><p>I think dark matter (more precisely, WIMPs) can interact via the weak force.&nbsp; Of course, using the weak force to detect them would require a monumental effort. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[baulten]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I think dark matter (more precisely, WIMPs) can interact via the weak force.&nbsp; Of course, using the weak force to detect them would require a monumental effort. <br /> Posted by derekmcd</DIV><br />Hmm, I'm going to go do some checking, but I was under the influence that WIMPS ONLY interacted via gravity.&nbsp; I might be wrong, though.&nbsp;</p><p>Oops, you're right, at least according to wiki.&nbsp; I stand corrected! </p>

 

[lhc2008]

<p>WIMPS - at least the lightest supersymmetric partner (LSP; also called the neutralino) in supersymmetry theory - interacts both via gravity and the weak force.&nbsp; Axions, another popular dark matter candidate, would also experience both interactions.&nbsp; </p><p>If dark matter interacts only through gravity, then none of the direct detection experiments currently running, such as CDMS and Xenon-10, have any chance of detecting it.&nbsp; Let's hope that's not the case!&nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hmm, I'm going to go do some checking, but I was under the influence that WIMPS ONLY interacted via gravity.&nbsp; I might be wrong, though.&nbsp;Oops, you're right, at least according to wiki.&nbsp; I stand corrected! <br /> Posted by baulten</DIV><br /></p>

 

[pradipta]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>WIMPS - at least the lightest supersymmetric partner (LSP; also called the neutralino) in supersymmetry theory - interacts both via gravity and the weak force.&nbsp; Axions, another popular dark matter candidate, would also experience both interactions.&nbsp; If dark matter interacts only through gravity, then none of the direct detection experiments currently running, such as CDMS and Xenon-10, have any chance of detecting it.&nbsp; Let's hope that's not the case!&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <br />Posted by lhc2008</DIV> <p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Dear Sir,</font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font> <p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Since the ancestral time, world space research is progressing on wrong concept<span>&nbsp; </span>because we unknown about space mirror which is a great mystery and creator of lots of mysteries viz. milk ways, galaxies, nebulas, white dwarfs, black holes etcs. Hence without study of space mirror the space research has no future.</font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font> <p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">In sort it can not explain in short. Therefore it invites to visit </font><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">http://www.spacemirrormystery.com</font><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"> to know the original truth. <span>&nbsp;</span></font></font></p><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>pradipta</p> </div>

 

[michaelmozina]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>As far I understand Dark Matter is the reason to why galaxies and galaxy clusters are clogging up together, right? If that is the case dark matter has a "pushing" force.</DIV></p><p>As origin, and Yevaud and others have noted, "dark matter" is roughly equal to "missing mass", and would have a clumping or a "pulling" force on other forms of matter, like any ordinary type of matter.&nbsp; The term "dark matter" 30 years ago referred mostly to "MACHO" forms of "missing mass", or clumps of standard matter that our technology is too primative to observe.&nbsp; The term DM however has evolved since then to potentially include hypothetical SUSY particles like axions and WIMPS and forms of hypothetical matter that have yet to be emprically demonstrated.&nbsp; SUSY theory is pretty much hypothetical particle physics theory at this point in time, but there are emprical physical tests that are designed to look for SUSY particles in the newest particle collider experiments.</p><p>The "pushing" force as others have noted comes from a hypothetical form of energy known as "dark energy", and is probably what you're really hoping to "tap into" as an energy source.&nbsp; DM would not likely be an energy source, whereas DE would likely be one. </p><p>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Now what if we finally discovered it, knew what it was and we started to be able to "control it"? </DIV></p><p>That would be a nifty trick alright, but first we would have to identifiy where "dark energy" might come from and that's never happened.&nbsp; </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

 

[michaelmozina]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>WIMPS - at least the lightest supersymmetric partner (LSP; also called the neutralino) in supersymmetry theory - interacts both via gravity and the weak force.&nbsp; Axions, another popular dark matter candidate, would also experience both interactions.&nbsp; If dark matter interacts only through gravity, then none of the direct detection experiments currently running, such as CDMS and Xenon-10, have any chance of detecting it.&nbsp; Let's hope that's not the case!&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <br /> Posted by lhc2008</DIV></p><p>Wouldn't something like LIGO be able pick up a wave of "dark matter" that interacted with the experiment gravitationally?</p><p>It seems to me that LHC has the most hope of emprically demonstrating that SUSY theory has merit.&nbsp; It's hard to say whether axions or WIMPS would have long enough lifetimes to explain the phenomenon in question.&nbsp; In other words, these particles might decay into standard forms of matter in millisecond timelines and therefore they may not be able to provide any way to explain missing forms of stable matter.&nbsp;&nbsp; Assuming we could control a source of particle dark matter, it seems like someone might verify this dark matter exists in a normal emprical test using something like LIGO as the detector. &nbsp; The only requirement is that we would have to be able to control the flow of these particles so we can turn them on and see the effect on the experiment and then turn them off and see the that our readings return to "normal". &nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Wouldn't something like LIGO be able pick up a wave of "dark matter" that interacted with the experiment gravitationally?&nbsp; Posted by michaelmozina</DIV></p><p>Not quite sure I'm following what you are asking, but I don't think LIGO works that way.&nbsp; First, they have to detect an event that is a good candidate for creating gravitational waves such as colliding neutron stars and then hope LIGO picks up some anomoly that would coincide with the timing of the event.&nbsp; Not sure a 'wave' of dark matter fits that.&nbsp; Not really sure what you mean by 'wave'... dark matter is thought to be somewhat evenly distributed throughout the galaxy extending out to the halo.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[michaelmozina]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Not quite sure I'm following what you are asking, but I don't think LIGO works that way.&nbsp; First, they have to detect an event that is a good candidate for creating gravitational waves such as colliding neutron stars and then hope LIGO picks up some anomoly that would coincide with the timing of the event.&nbsp; Not sure a 'wave' of dark matter fits that.&nbsp; Not really sure what you mean by 'wave'... dark matter is thought to be somewhat evenly distributed throughout the galaxy extending out to the halo.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by derekmcd</DIV></p><p>I was thinking more along the lines of aiming a beam of "dark matter" at the LIGO equipment and seeing what effect it has.&nbsp; </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>