Doing a check before re-entry?

[holmec]

I guess the least populated run way for the Shuttle would be Rota, Spain. This was built as an emergency landing area for the Shuttle in case the Shuttle had to separate at launch before orbit. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[holmec]

Too bad we never figured out a way to actually bail from orbit and parachute individually to the gound. I wonder if a personal balute heat sheild would do the trick, then use a parachute at the right altitude, whatever that is.<br /><img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

MOOSE links:<br /><br />http://www.astronautix.com/craft/moose.htm<br /><br />http://www.space.com/news/spacehistory/moose_000923.html<br /><br />Some Henry Spencer archive disucssion:<br /><br />http://yarchive.net/space/launchers/personal_reentry.html<br /><br />Wayne<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[nacnud]

Yay for MOOSES! I love the idea that you aim and fire the solid retro rocket by hand. Eeep!

 

[drwayne]

It is just such a cool name and even a cool acronym - in original form anyway...<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

My luck I would end up landing in a shopping mall or dangling from a tall building or something...<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[gofer]

Perhaps something like this? http://www.laspace.ru/rus/ptu_future.php (couldn't finda a page in English) Although, it looks like it's meant for cargo/sample return thou looking at the canister in the middle?; deployment tests in the air tunnel?: http://www.laspace.ru/rus/news.php would be neat if it got to a point of testing it out on the iss in an escape-pod config (err... to prevent misunderstaning, I mean with a test dummy, of course, not a real emergency situation, let's hope those don't happen)

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>In fact some ISS assembly missions may not be possible with the OBSS onboard, (Node 2, Columbus, Kibo), probably because of launch mass issues.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Or clearance issues. I remember watching Destiny come out of the payload bay. That thing was in there snug. The RMS operator had a very small margin for error -- only about six inches, if I recall correctly. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[erioladastra]

"They still have hope for certifying a tile and RCC repair. They need the boom to find the damage and get to it to attempt a repair. There is not plan to be able to re-supply the Orbiter if it can not dock with the iSS. "<br /><br />Not all areas of the orbiter are visible. You need the R-Bar Pitch Manuver (RPM) to check, with the correct level of accuracy, some areas such as the door seals. The RPM and OBSS will combine ot give all the views needed. They are still very limited to where they could get for a repair - 2/3 of the orbiter remains unreachable. You can't get the crew to the belly of the orbiter (SAFER is not acceptable since takes too long and can't hold rigid while doing the repair). Therefore, there is the Obiter Repair Manuver (ORM) that would use the SSRMS, SRMS and the OBSS boom (if certified for loads) in a bold but awkward manuver.

 

[georgeniebling]

assuming (don't ya love assumptions):<br /><br />STS-114 has a problem prompting STS-300 ...<br /><br />but they *think* they made a repair to STS-114 ...<br /><br />would STS-300 be launch to protect the STS-114 crew?<br /><br />Also ... what is the minimum crew needed to land (CDR and PLT or just one) .... ie, could an attempt be made by one or two astronauts willing to risk it in order to try and return a damaged or possibly damaged Orbiter?

 

[nacnud]

What is the reasoning behind having those function only operable by people?

 

[henryhallam]

Is it literally just a case of pushing three buttons? If so, surely automating that would be a piece of cake. Hell, I could do it with $10 of ICs and half an hour with a soldering iron.

 

[drwayne]

Damn, I wonder if we can borrow the Russian autolanding software????<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[henryhallam]

What a waste of a beautiful machine that would be <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /><br /><br />I think in all likelyhood though, this will never be an issue.

 

[SpaceKiwi]

SG, do you not think they would give serious consideration to trying to bring it down at Diego Garcia first? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[SpaceKiwi]

I guess this is where a nice long eastern Pacific Ocean island would come in real handy. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[SpaceKiwi]

So, what am I not understanding correctly then? If it is going to be flown into the Pacific anyway, with the attendant risks of that flight-path, why not to a remote island runway? Could you not fly a spiral pattern over ocean before straightening out for the final approach, while still largely over water?<br /><br />I defer to your undoubted expertise about this, but I'm just playing devil's advocate here and wondering if it wouldn't be possible to find somewhere 'safe' to try and save 2 billion dollars worth of hardware. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[georgeniebling]

who is building / built the new Boom? Canada (like the RMS)?<br /><br />Is there *one* unit to be shared by all Shuttles or are there three units each dedicated to one Shuttle?<br />

 

[najab]

I know there are at least two. I don't think there's a third.

 

[georgeniebling]

so if I'm reading this all correctly ... there is a contingency to either attempt a return of a damaged Orbiter or de-orbit for destruction ....<br /><br />but no plan to allow one astronaut to attempt the return him/herself if the repair is uncertain .... (yes, I suppose that person would ned a bit of a hero-complex to take the job).<br /><br />NEW QUESTION: Why not just leave it on-orbit?<br /><br />(I think I know the answer but I wanna see where the conversation goes)

 

[SpaceKiwi]

<font color="yellow">Why not just leave it on-orbit?</font><br /><br />Well, my understanding of that scenario is that the Orbiter would eventually die and become an uncontrollable piece of space junk. At the altitude it is operating at, it would also eventually return to earth on an uncontrollable trajectory. I imagine there would also be a secondary concern of it hitting something else in orbit and pieces falling off.<br /><br />To clarify one of your earlier points, I don't believe there is any contingency to return a damaged Orbiter. I was just enquiring as to why not. Apparently if a crew has to bail to another Orbiter, then the damaged one is to join Mir at the bottom of the Pacific. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[georgeniebling]

Kiwi,<br /><br />Yup ... that is my understanding too ... I was just wondering if they'd consider a "Space Cowboy" scenerio if one of the astronauts wanted to try a de-orbit and landing knowing the risk .... and hence the suggestion of Diego Garcia *does* seem excellent at that point .... or perhaps Johnston Atoll in the Pacific.<br />

 

[SpaceKiwi]

George, I don't believe that is even necessary. The Orbiter could be made fully autonomous and remote piloted to an attempted landing. I know there has been discussion of this in the past, but I am unsure if you could make the necessary changes on-the-fly. Earlier in this thread SG does suggest that Astronauts could probably 'hot-wire' the needed mods in. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

"if one of the astronauts wanted to try a de-orbit and landing knowing the risk"<br /><br />I have been wondering that very thing myself - more from the perspective of would an astronaut volunteer knowing that, if he/she died, it might be to some degree un-neccessary.<br /><br />On a parallel path, I had a story idea.<br /><br />The fictional idea that was in my mind was this: With the crew sheltering at the ISS, something goes wrong with the station, and they can only survive there is N of them leave, taking a shot on the still powered shuttle (I know, the problem would have to develop fast)<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[nacnud]

Perhaps get the elektron to die perminantly.