Dust Devils may sterilize Mars' surface

[MeteorWayne]

From the Oct 29 Science News <br /><br />Recent work has indicated that dust devils on mars may create hydrogen peroxide, possibly sterilizing the surface!<br /><br />"The desert whirlwinds ( on earth) are typically only a few hundred meters tall and feature 60-km/hr gusts. <br /><br />But within dust devils, electric fields can be surprisingly strong. New research suggests that those electric fields help the whirlwind lift material off the ground, enabling dust devils to pump enough dust into Earth's atmosphere to possibly affect climate (SN: 9/29/01, p. 200: http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20010929/bob9.asp). <br /><br />Results of these earthbound investigations have implications for explorations of other planets. On Mars, a desert planet where dust devils are common and unusually large, the whirlwinds result from severe atmospheric turbulence. Recent studies suggest that the electric fields in dust devils on the Red Planet are strong enough to cause chemical changes in the atmosphere there, including the creation of hydrogen peroxide. That reactive substance may sterilize Mars' surface, and its presence could explain some of the odd soil chemistry observed by the Mars Viking landers in the 1970s." <br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[silylene old]

Interesting article.<br /><br />**groaning** at the thought of how this information is likely to be misused by the "EPH" and "electric universe" advocates. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Yeah, that's a risk, but I thought the info was unique enough to be worth it.<br /><br />Science News is my preferred READING material in the "Porcelin Reading Room." <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[bonzelite]

it's more likely to be misused by standard theorists to downplay electrical phenomena even though it happens in plain sight.<br /><br />

 

[bonzelite]

explain this further, the methane issue as it relates, or doesn't, to the devils. <br /><br />

 

[brellis]

<font color="yellow">Science News is my preferred READING material in the "Porcelin Reading Room."</font><br /><br />Sterilization is important particularly after the methane-generating process <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[bonzelite]

indeed. <br /><br />burn a match.

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>explain this further, the methane issue as it relates, or doesn't, to the devils. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />I'm no expert at all, but I think it's that the electrical charges generated by these dust devils should break the methane down or make it bond with other stuff. Either way, they should remove it from the atmosphere -- assuming we've got all the pieces of the puzzle, of course, which it's virtually certain we don't. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[publiusr]

Now for Martian windfarms...

 

[bonzelite]

but it looks like this is not happening. the methane is being replenished.

 

[silylene old]

The traces of methane are most likely being formed by a abiological process via photoreduction of CO2 or CO. We covered this mechanism in detail before, and a very nice refereed paper was later published supporting this view. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[bonzelite]

yes, and this requires serpentinization in olivine which then opens the debate back up for biotic processes. water vapour and methane are both present. so saying "most likely" is erroneous. <br />

 

[silylene old]

Serpentization of olivine occurs deep underground and is unrelated to a photochemical process. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[bonzelite]

got it. thanks <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> it's been a while since i've covered this topic. <br /><br />JonClarke is recapping the geothermal requirements for serpentinization so i'm currently stuck on that.

 

[bonzelite]

here, sily, i found this last year's post of yours explaining your idea:<br /><br />here<br /><br />"Personally I do think that the mechanism is photoreduction of CO2(g) + H2O(g) over metal oxide dusts to form methane. Several papers on this subject have been published in refereed chemical journals, and in earlier threads I posted their titles for anyone that wants to find them in a library. <br /><br />Photoreduction would account for the amounts seen, and it would occur in the greatest amounts near the equator where insolation is highest. This is excatly what is observed. <br /><br />No planetologists have published a photoreduction mechanism yet, because they are not photochemists. But sooner or later, one will. Mark my words! I have published several photochemical mechanism papers in chemical journals, including JACS, and I know what I am talking about. " <br /><br /><br />i am open to your idea, by the way. i am not bought and sold on any idea in particular concerning the mars methane issue. it's very mysterious.

 

[bonzelite]

and HERE is the whole thread --very interesting thread--<br /><br />gives a great tie-in to this thread <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[silylene old]

A paper was then published, in <i>Icarus</i> Nov 2005 by Bar-Nun et al, proposing a photochemical mechanism by reducing CO. The Bar-Nun paper has a lot of experimental data from their lab, showing their mechanism is possible, provided there is enough CO in the Martian atmosphere. See attached figure from their paper. Bomez, if you want a copy of their paper send me a PM and I can email it to you.<br /><br />Personally, I don't think that their photochemical mechanism is as reasonable as my proposed photochemical mechanism. Theirs requires CO, which is only present in tiny concentrations in the Martian atmosphere. However, in their favor, their mechanism does not require a catalyst support.<br /><br />My proposed photochemical mechanism uses CO2 and H20, both which are common in the Martian atmosphere, and requires a metal oxide dust as a catalyst. Interestingly, the Martian dust devils would provide just the mechanism for propelling dust into the atmosphere to act as a catalyst for photoredustion of CO2 to produce CH4.<br /><br />Also, the portions of the Martian surface which seem to generate CH4 are coincident with surface areas which receive the highest solar irradiation. This observation is exactly what one would expect if a photochemical mechanism is operant. On the other hand, if the mechanism was serpentization of olivine, there should be no correlation to solar flux. And also, if the mechanism were biological generation of CH4 from deeply buried bacteria, there should also be no correlation to solar flux. The observations match a photochemical mechanism. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>