Question Earth Moon Origin

[Harry Costas]

Can we learn from the comets and rocks that are left over when the solar system formed?


[Submitted on 7 Mar 2025]

Design of a low-thrust gravity-assisted rendezvous trajectory to Halley's comet​

Roberto Flores, Alessandro Beolchi, Elena Fantino, Chiara Pozzi, Mauro Pontani, Ivano Bertini, Cesare Barbieri

Comets are the most pristine planetesimals left from the formation of the Solar System. They carry unique information on the materials and the physical processes which led to the presence of planets and moons. Many important questions about cometary physics, such as origin, constituents and mechanism of cometary activity, remain unanswered. The next perihelion of comet 1P/Halley, in 2061, is an excellent opportunity to revisit this object of outstanding scientific and cultural relevance. In 1986, during its latest approach to the Sun, several flyby targeted Halley's comet to observe its nucleus and shed light on its properties, origin, and evolution. However, due to its retrograde orbit and high ecliptic inclination, the quality of data was limited by the large relative velocity and short time spent by the spacecraft inside the coma of the comet. A rendezvous mission like ESA/Rosetta would overcome such limitations, but the trajectory design is extremely challenging due to the shortcomings of current propulsion technology. Given the considerable lead times of spacecraft development and the long duration of the interplanetary transfer required to reach the comet, it is imperative to start mission planning several decades in advance. This study presents a low-thrust rendezvous strategy to reach the comet before the phase of intense activity during the close approach to the Sun. The trajectory design combines a gravity-assist maneuver with electric propulsion arcs to maximize scientific payload mass while constraining transfer duration. A propulsive plane change maneuver would be prohibitive. To keep the propellant budget within reasonable limits, most of the plane change maneuver is achieved via either a Jupiter or a Saturn flyby. The interplanetary low-thrust gravity-assisted trajectory design strategy is described, followed by the presentation of multiple proof-of-concept solutions.

 

[Harry Costas]

Life after the Moon and Earth impact theory.
With a pinch of salt.

[Submitted on 19 Mar 2025]

Deep Mantle-Atmosphere Coupling and Carbonaceous Bombardment: Options for Biomolecule Formation on an Oxidized Early Earth​

Klaus Paschek, Thomas K. Henning, Karan Molaverdikhani, Yoshinori Miyazaki, Ben K. D. Pearce, Ralph E. Pudritz, Dmitry A. Semenov

Understanding what environmental conditions prevailed on early Earth during the Hadean eon, and how this set the stage for the origins of life, remains a challenge. Geologic processes such as serpentinization and bombardment by chondritic material during the late veneer might have been very active, shaping an atmospheric composition reducing enough to allow efficient photochemical synthesis of HCN, one of the key precursors of prebiotic molecules. HCN can rain out and accumulate in warm little ponds (WLPs), forming prebiotic molecules such as nucleobases and the sugar ribose. These molecules could condense to nucleotides, the building blocks of RNA molecules, one of the ingredients of life. Here, we perform a systematic study of potential sources of reducing gases on Hadean Earth and calculate the concentrations of prebiotic molecules in WLPs based on a comprehensive geophysical and atmospheric model. We find that in a reduced H2-dominated atmosphere, carbonaceous bombardment can produce enough HCN to reach maximum WLP concentrations of ∼1−10mM for nucleobases and, in the absence of seepage, ∼10−100μM for ribose. If the Hadean atmosphere was initially oxidized and CO2-rich (90%), we find serpentinization alone can reduce the atmosphere, resulting in WLP concentrations of an order of magnitude lower than the reducing carbonaceous bombardment case. In both cases, concentrations are sufficient for nucleotide synthesis, as shown in experimental studies. RNA could have appeared on Earth immediately after it became habitable (about 100Myr after the Moon-forming impact), or it could have (re)appeared later at any time up to the beginning of the Archean.

 

[Harry Costas]

This is incredible research.
This is like looking at a fossil SN in the past.
Looking at the evidence for the origin of the moon.

[Submitted on 26 Mar 2025]

To detect strong nugget with an acoustic array​

Haoyang Qi, Renxin Xu

This article discusses strong nuggets (SNs) which means strong interaction condensed matter clusters with a mass of about 106g. They may originate from the early universe, supernova, pulsar merger event, and so on. Depending on the equation of state, the SNs could be stable and even be one of the candidates for dark matter. In order to detect SNs which hitting the Earth or the Moon at a non-relativistic velocity, a new messenger, the acoustic array, is analysed. The results of the calculations show that the impact signal of an SN can be detected at a distance of about 30 kilometers from the nugget's trajectory. By using microphone boxes, hydrophones or seismographs to construct an array in the bedrock, ocean or on the Moon, it is possible to reconstruct the velocity, mass, and interacting cross section of SNs, and then constrain also the nature of supra-nuclear matter. The acoustic array can also be used for distributed acoustic sensing of meteorites or earthquakes. The sonar localisation system on the proposed High-energy Underwater Neutrino Telescope (HUNT) is suggested as a pathfinder for acoustic array detection.

 

[Catastrophe]

Here is a more comprehensive reference:

Google Search

This includes a NASA article with a very good video much lower down under "Model Behavior"
Best put on "Full Screen" right away by clicking on symbol bottom right of black box.
This is not visible until you click at bottom right corner.

Moon Formation - NASA Science

Earth’s Moon was born out of destruction. There are several theories about our Moon’s formation, but almost all share that point in common...

science.nasa.gov

Cat

 

[Harry Costas]

Hello Catastrophe

NASA science is not up-to-date.
Does not show crust, mantle, and core structure.

The end uniform motion cannot be explained by the collision processes.

It may be the main theory.

Similar to the BB theory.

 

[Harry Costas]

Sometimes we need to look beyond to understand the evolution of our solar system.

[Submitted on 2 Mar 2025]

Investigating the formation of small Solar System objects using stellar occultations by satellites: present, future and its use to update satellite orbits​

Felipe Braga-Ribas, Frederic Vachier, Josselin Desmars, Giuliano Margoti, Bruno Sicardy

The history of the outer solar system is intrinsically related to the Giant Planets migration. A massive disk of material within a radius of 30~au was scattered during the planetary migration, creating different dynamic populations in the Transneptunian region. They were formed in a collisional environment when massive collisions allowed them to grow and form much smaller moons than the primary body. The dynamical group, known as the Cold Classicals, was formed in a sparse disk from 42 to about 47~au and did not suffer much from planet migration. Observations show that many of Cold Classical are binary, consistent with the streaming instability process. The stellar occultation technique, with a spatial resolution of a few kilometres, can be used to search for binaries where other techniques are unable to do so, and to characterise the known satellites of Trans-Neptunian Objects (TNO), constraining their formation scenarios. We review here the first stellar occultations by TNO's satellites (besides Charon), discuss the methods used to detect these events. We also fit new orbital elements and system mass for Vanth (Orcus/1) and Weywot (Quaoar/1), finding reasonable solutions for pure Keplerian orbits. Finally, we discuss the prospects regarding the stellar occultations by TNO binaries and their implications for the study of the history of the Solar System.

 

[Catastrophe]

Hi Harry,
My understanding is that the main current theory is collision but there are then 3 possible conclusions to this collision theory.

I asked Google for the current leading theory, and I got this:

Google Search

Cat

 

[Harry Costas]

It is what it is.

More to come in the near future.

 

[Harry Costas]

For those who want to search deeper into the origin of our Solar System.
The structure of the moons and the planets may have a similar origin.
The disc formed from our Sun billions of years ago may have originated from our Sun expelling matter in the form of an hourglass.
Yes, our Sun may have passed through a Nebula millions of years ago and added to the Sun's Core and matter throughout the Solar System.


[Submitted on 3 Apr 2025]

Size and shape of the trans-Neptunian object (470316) 2007 OC10: Comparison with thermal data​

J.M. Gómez-Limón, R. Leiva, J. L. Ortiz, N. Morales, M. Kretlow, M. Vara-Lubiano, P. Santos-Sanz, A. Álvarez-Candal, J. L. Rizos, R. Duffard, E. Fernández-Valenzuela, Y. Kilic, S. Cikota, B. Sicardy, F. Bragas-Ribas, M. R. Alarcon, S. Alis, Z. Benkhaldoun, A. Burdanov, J. de Wit, S. Calavia Belloc, J. Calvo Fernández, O. Canales Moreno, G. Catanzaro, S. Fisek, A. Frasca, R. Iglesias-Marzoa, R. Infante-Sainz, A. Jiménez-Guisado, S. Kaspi, T. Kuutma, D. Lafuente Aznar, J. Licandro, J. L. Maestre, P. Martorell, A. Nastasi, G. Occhipinti, C. Perelló, C. Rinner, B. Samper-Doménech, A. San Segundo, T. Santana-Ros, M. Serra-Ricart

The shapes of only 12 trans-Neptunian objects have been directly measured, offering crucial insights into their internal structure. These properties are strongly connected to the processes that shaped the early Solar System, and provide important clues about its evolution.
The aim of the present work is to characterise the size, shape, geometric albedo, and beaming parameter of the TNO (470316) 2007 OC10 . We compared these values to the effective diameter and geometric albedo obtained from thermal data by the TNOs are Cool survey. We also combined occultation and thermal data to constrain the size of a putative unresolved satellite.
We predicted an occultation of the star Gaia DR3 2727866328215869952 by 2007 OC10 on 2022 August 22. Four stations detected the occultation. We implemented an elliptical shape model for the projection of 2007 OC10. Following a Bayesian approach, we obtained the posterior probability density in the model parameter space using a Markov chain Monte Carlo method.
The elliptical limb of 2007 OC10 has semi-axes of 215+10−7×141+24−23 km, and thus the projected axis ratio is b/a=0.58+0.16−0.16. The area-equivalent diameter is 330+56−55,km. From our own absolute magnitude value of HV=5.40±0.02, the geometric albedo is pV=11.2+2.1−5.0 %. Combining the occultation results with thermal data, we constrain the beaming parameter to η=1.42+0.75−0.58. Occultation data reveal that the star is double. The secondary star has a position angle with respect to the primary of 56+3−17 degrees, has an angular separation of 57+4−11 mas, and is 1.18+0.07−0.07 magnitudes fainter than the primary.

 

[Harry Costas]

Research keeps going deeper.

[Submitted on 2 Apr 2025]

Observational diversity of bright long-lived Type II supernovae​

T. Nagao, T. M. Reynolds, H. Kuncarayakti, R. Cartier, S. Mattila, K. Maeda, J. Sollerman, P. J. Pessi, J. P. Anderson, C. Inserra, T.-W. Chen, L. Ferrari, M. Fraser, D. R. Young, M. Gromadzki, C. P. Gutiérrez, G. Pignata, T. E. Muller-Bravo, F. Ragosta, A. Reguitti, S. Moran, M. González-Bañuelos, M. Kopsacheili, T. Petrushevska

In various types of supernovae (SNe), strong interaction between the SN ejecta and circumstellar material (CSM) has been reported. This raises questions on their progenitors and mass-loss processes shortly before the explosion. Recently, the bright long-lived Type~II SN 2021irp was proposed to be a standard Type II SN interacting with disk-like CSM. The observational properties suggest that the progenitor was a massive star in a binary system and underwent a mass-ejection process due to the binary interaction just before the explosion. Here, we study the diversity of the observational properties of bright long-lived Type II (21irp-like) SNe. We analyse the diversity of their CSM properties, in order to understand their progenitors and mass-loss mechanisms and their relations with the other types of interacting SNe. We performed photometry, spectroscopy, and/or polarimetry for four 21irp-like SNe. Based on these observations as well as published data of SN~2021irp itself and well-observed bright and long-lived type II SNe including SNe~2010jl, 2015da and 2017hcc, we discuss their CSM characteristics. This sample of SNe shows luminous and long-lived photometric evolution, with some variations in the photometric evolution (from ∼−17 to ∼−20 absolute mag in the r/o band even at ∼200 days after the explosion). They show photospheric spectra characterized mainly by Balmer lines for several hundreds of days, with some variations in the shapes of the lines. They show high polarization with slight variations in the polarization degrees with rapid declines with time (from ∼3−6 \% before the peak to ∼1 \% at ∼200 days after the peak). The observational properties are consistent with the disk-CSM-interaction scenario, i.e., typical Type~II SNe interacting with disk-like CSM.

 

[Catastrophe]

This reference bears repeating in summarising the three main hypotheses arising out of the impact theory:

Giant-impact hypothesis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Cat :

 

[Harry Costas]

Repeat as much as you can.
The so-called evidence does not prove the collision of Earth and another planet creating the moon.
The so-called evidence leans more toward the Earth and Moon, which formed from the same chaos.

Giant-impact hypothesis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Harry Costas]

Well, the plot thickens.

[Submitted on 20 Mar 2025 (v1), last revised 25 Mar 2025 (this version, v2)]

Protoplanetary cores drove chondrule formation​

Mohamad Ali-Dib, Craig Walton

Chondrules are small spherical objects that formed at high temperatures early in the history of the Solar System. The key compositional characteristics of chondrules may be well explained by high gas pressures in their formation environment (Galy et al. 2000; Alexander et al. 2008). However, such high gas pressures are widely considered astrophysically unreasonable (Ebel et al. 2023). Here, we propose that chondrules were formed via the processing of dust grains in the dust-rich envelopes of planetary embryos, before getting ejected via convective diffusion. We show that this scenario can explain many salient constraints on chondrule formation, including formation locations; mass and timescale of chondrule production; repeat chondrule heating events; heating timescales; and, most crucially, high prevailing gas pressures. Our work suggests that high gas pressures may indeed have prevailed during the formation of chondrules, reconciling previous analytical observations, experimental evidence, and theory. We suggest that chondrules are mostly the products rather than the precursors of planetary embryo formation - a result which would have important implications for our understanding of the early history of the Solar System.

 

[Harry Costas]

OK
I also post papers from other opinions.

[Submitted on 2 Apr 2025]

Scattering blanketing effect of Earth's proto-atmosphere: enhanced suppression of planetary radiation and magma ocean cooling​

Tatsuya Yoshida, Kirara Arima, Takeshi Kuroda, Naoki Terada, Kiyoshi Kuramoto

The thermal evolution of magma oceans formed by giant impacts is strongly influenced by a proto-atmosphere through its blanketing effect, which suppresses outgoing planetary radiation. While both radiative absorption and Rayleigh scattering by atmospheric species can contribute to this effect, the role of the scattering in suppressing thermal radiation from magma oceans remains unclear. In this study, we developed a 1-D radiative transfer model for planetary and solar radiation in a proto-atmosphere composed of H2O and H2, and a coupled thermal evolution model of a planetary interior and proto-atmosphere, to investigate the scattering blanketing effect on planetary radiation and magma ocean cooling. Our results show that Rayleigh scattering significantly reduces outgoing planetary radiation at wavelengths below ~1 micrometer, particularly in hot, thick atmospheres where scattering is highly effective. Consequently, the planetary outgoing radiation flux decreases by up to about one to two orders of magnitude, and the magma ocean lifetime is prolonged by up to about three times due to the scattering blanketing effect when the total amounts of H2O and H2 are equivalent to or greater than the present-day terrestrial seawater. These findings suggest that the prolonged magma ocean phase facilitated efficient differentiation between compatible and incompatible elements, even in the lower mantle. Furthermore, they imply that sustained magma oceans likely persisted throughout much of the giant impact phase, supporting a magma ocean origin of the Moon consistent with its observed chemical characteristics.

 

[Harry Costas]

Could Mars' moons add info to Earth's Moon?

[Submitted on 11 Apr 2025]

Origin of Phobos and Deimos : Orbital evolution shortly after formation from a potential dislocation​

Ryan Dahoumane (1), Kévin Baillié (1), Valéry Lainey (1) ((1) LTE, Observatoire de Paris, Université PSL, Sorbonne Université, Université de Lille, LNE, CNRS)

This paper deals with the formation and evolution of Mars' moons, Phobos and Deimos, assuming the dislocation of a larger progenitor as the origin of these moons. The study by Hyodo et al. (2022) argue that under somewhat simplistic modeling, the post-dislocation orbits of Phobos and Deimos inevitably collide within 10,000 years, leading to their mutual annihilation. These findings are based on N-body simulations, accounting for Mars' J2 and J4 gravitational perturbations and mutual perturbations between the moons. In this paper, we challenge these findings by extending their work. We incorporate important perturbations such as solar perturbations, Mars' axial precession and nutation, and its deformation along three axes. We also extend some of the hypotheses made by Hyodo et al. (2022) concerning the initial distribution of Phobos and Deimos after the dislocation. Our analysis reveals that including these additional perturbations as well as the possibility of having more than two fragments after the dislocation does not alter the ultimate fate of Phobos and Deimos. The moons still converge towards collision within comparable timescales, supporting Hyodo et al. (2022) conclusions that the dislocation hypothesis under the dynamical scenario developed by Bagheri et al. (2021) has, in the best conditions, about 10\% chance of surviving after the first 100,000 years following their formation.

 

[Harry Costas]

Thus, the giant impact theory has difficulty explaining the Moon's Earth-like isotopic compositions.

Interesting reading, form your own opinion.

[Submitted on 16 Apr 2025]

Origin of the Moon's Earth-like isotopic composition from giant impact on a differential rotating proto-Earth​

Wenshuai Liu

According to the giant impact theory, the Moon formed by accreting the circum-terrestrial debris disk produced by Theia colliding with the proto-Earth. The giant impact theory can explain most of the properties of the Earth-Moon system, however, simulations of giant impact between a planetary embryo and the growing proto-Earth indicate that the materials in the circum-terrestrial debris disk produced by the impact originate mainly from the impactor, contradicting with the fact that different Solar System bodies have distinct compositions. Thus, the giant impact theory has difficulty explaining the Moon's Earth-like isotopic compositions. More materials from the proto-Earth could be delivered to the circum-terrestrial debris disk when a slightly sub-Mars-sized body collides with a fast rotating planet of rigid rotation but the resulting angular momentum is too large compared with that of the current Earth-Moon system. Since planetesimals accreted by the proto-Earth hit the surface of the proto-Earth, enhancing the rotation rate of the surface of the proto-Earth. The surface's fast rotation rate relative to the slow rotation rate of the inner region of the proto-Earth leads to transfer of angular momentum from surface to inner, resulting in the differential rotation. Here, we show that the giant impact of a sub-Mars-sized body on a differential rotating proto-Earth with a fast rotating outer region and a relative slow rotating inner region could result in a circum-terrestrial debris disk with materials predominately from the proto-Earth without violating the angular momentum constraint. The theory proposed here may provide a viable way of explaining the similarity in the isotopic compositions of the Earth and Moon.