Earth Not Properly Protected from Asteroids

[MeteorWayne]

http://www.space.com/news/space-rock-ea ... 00122.html

The United States must do more to safeguard the Earth against destruction by an asteroid than merely prepping nuclear missiles, a new report has found.

The 134-page report, released Friday by the National Academy of Sciences, states that the $4 million spent by the United States to identify all potentially dangerous asteroids near Earth is not enough to do the job mandated by Congress in 2005. NASA is in dire need of more funding to meet the challenge, and less than $1 million is currently set aside to research ways to counter space rocks that do endanger the Earth — measures like developing the spacecraft and technology to deflect incoming asteroids — the report states.



I was going to stick this in one of the asteroid threads, but came to the conclusion it could use it's own.

SDC article. Amazingly, other than one loon, the comments are saner than most artciles.

 

[bdewoody]

To me this seems like an ideal project for the international community. After all the big one could hit any nation.

 

[R1]

Crikey!
Four million dollars :shock: , that's a joke.

Maybe a disaster needs to hit Nasa. When disaster struck Haiti, the U.S. committed 100 million to it.

 

[neuvik]

http://www.space.com/news/space-rock-earth-threat-100122.html

The United States must do more to safeguard the Earth against destruction by an asteroid than merely prepping nuclear missiles, a new report has found.

The 134-page report, released Friday by the National Academy of Sciences, states that the $4 million spent by the United States to identify all potentially dangerous asteroids near Earth is not enough to do the job mandated by Congress in 2005. NASA is in dire need of more funding to meet the challenge, and less than $1 million is currently set aside to research ways to counter space rocks that do endanger the Earth — measures like developing the spacecraft and technology to deflect incoming asteroids — the report states.

I was going to stick this in one of the asteroid threads, but came to the conclusion it could use it's own.

SDC article. Amazingly, other than one loon, the comments are saner than most artciles.

I never knew Congress mandated them to identify asteroids. Great idea, but giving no extra money to NASA....thats just lame.

We should step that up, it just seems like a no brainer. All it takes is that 1 in a million chance where we should have done something but instead we lose a population center. It seems pretty bipartisan too, I dont see why any of the political parties would have objections on it.

As was mentioned earlier it should be an international objective as well. Seems like the perfect thing for international relations as well...take scientists and military from among the nations, spread them around the various nations of the world and focus them towards this goal.

Also a spring board for general space sciences? I mean the navy hires civilian research ships for ocean floor maping, tidal research etc.

 

[menellom]

I recall seeing an interview with several astronomers in which they all suggested the best thing that could ever happen to space exploration would be the identification of a large asteroid on a collision course with Earth. It'd be a win-win-win scenario.

International and private space agencies would receive tens of billions of dollars to develop the means to destroy/deflect the asteroid. Then either:

A - Find out the asteroid wasn't going to impact, in which case they still benefit from all that funding and development.
B - They successfully destroy/deflect the asteroid, saving the world and guaranteeing them billions more in funding.
C - They fail to destroy/deflect the asteroid, it hits us and kills us all... in which case no one's there to make a fuss.

 

[clint_dreamer]

I love how the United States, and solely the United States should be responsible for all near Earth Asteroids. This is another area (like returning to the moon) that should be a global effort, and not left for one country to foot the bill. Although I'm certain other countries are watching and do have budgets, this article made it seem like if one Asteroid slips by the defense of the United States, that the Earth is doomed.

 

[strz51]

One of the biggest reasons we should develop the technology to find and deflect asteroids is because if we don't do it and an enemy nation does, the chance that they would use that technology to deflect an asteroid to impact in the United States is pretty likely. The United States on the other hand, if it developed this capability, would have a huge technological advantage over other nations which would reap huge rewards as well as the safety and peace of mind of our own nation.

 

[MeteorWayne]

Mod Hat On***

PLEASE stick to the issue of asteroid detection and remediation. This is another thread that may be split with political posts moved elsewhere.

Mod Hat Off****

 

[bearack]

Crikey!
Four million dollars :shock: , that's a joke.

Maybe a disaster needs to hit Nasa. When disaster struck Haiti, the U.S. committed 100 million to it.

That's like going to the delaership and asking "what can I get for $1.50".

 

[Geoduck2]

Mod Hat On***

PLEASE stick to the issue of asteroid detection and remediation. This is another thread that may be split with political posts moved elsewhere.

Mod Hat Off****

Sorry.

I do find it interesting though, how many of these threads to end up in political battles. Unlike during the Mercury/Gemini/Apollo years there is no longer a question of how to do things. We know how to go to the moon. We know how to block an incoming asteroid. We could do a lot of amazing things. The real question is getting the political will to do any of them.

The space between the average man-on-the-street's ears is the real Final Frontier.

 

[rreilly656]

Maybe one of the other posts has already addressed this issue, but an asteroid striking one geographic region does not mean that other regions will not be adversely affected in a major way -- depending on the size of the rock, of course. The point is, one can't think of an asteroid strike "somewhere else" not being our business, whoever "we" might be who was not directly struck. Krakatoa was devastating to a not-so-small region, for one thing, and for another, it dramatically affected weather world-wide for an entire year. That was just one volcano.

I do not ascribe to alarmism in the case of potential huge asteroid strikes, since the law of averages is in our favor, but it's perfectly reasonable to have a comprehensive plan for asteroid study, rendezvous, and exploration, and asteroid deflection can be rolled into the overall set of missions and programs.

 

[Couerl]

This is a tough one for so many reasons other than political, but we should bear in mind the three key words... "not properly protected".. I guess in Haiti right now they aren't feeling all that properly protected from earthquakes and people in Indonesia may not feel all that properly protected against tsunami's and so forth and so on, but what're ya gonna do?.. Chances are we could spend more money on detection and actually find more stuff on "the cheap". I'm all in favor of it, but that still leaves deterrence and that is another issue altogether, with or without the aid of nuclear missiles. If the rock were a city killer we might stand a chance against it, given enough time, but when they get much larger than that it won't make any difference what we do or how much we spend, it would simply obliterate us if it chose to. I'll take my chances in the Steve Bunker, digging is relatively cheap and as long as the crust doesn't melt I should stand a pretty decent chance.

Of course I'll need geothermal heat and electric to power my dvd player and I can watch endless reruns of Gilligan's Island and such and if anyone has any spare supermodels to donate to the re population effort I'll take a few of those too. Just pm me with info on where to send all relevant materials. :lol:

 

[Admiral_Lagrange]

This does read a bit like a political forum. But I believe the question isn't whether we can map the NEA's but whether we should and that's political.
Nasa is already talking about visiting a NEA. Do we have the technology to asure that little nudge won't send it crashing into the earth someday in the future ?
Cataloging and clasifying them sounds good, but I think getting man off this planet should take a high priority over that. Once man is free to rome space then man is going to do all that in order to exploit the minerals.
Then protecting the earth becomes a priority. But the data collected now will no longer apply after man has touched it and altered it's orbit.

So for now I think it should be left up to the gazzers who want to kill time, but if you discover one, don't name it. There's a new world order that believes they have the right to name other peoples discoveries.

 

[Windbourne]

A couple of things

First, this is NOT a mission for international missions.
The reason is that just about ANY SOLUTION will require Rockets AND quite probably Nukes.
At the least, nukes will be needed to blow up the asteroid, divert it, or shoot another smaller asteroid at it, or just provide power or even engine.
Basically, ALL solutions will require extreme engineering.
That limits any solution to countries that support both, leaving us pretty much the west, Russia, China, and India (oddly, NK and Iran may join that club since it was not a big concern to the last admin).

Now, how many countries will give up their information about their nukes? The west and Russia know about each other, but China and India will not be forthcoming with information about their nukes. China is in current production of new warheads, but is keeping quiet about the type and yields on it (they are believed to be neutrons).
Don't get me wrong. China would kill to get in on this. It would allow them to obtain lots of information for free, and likely they would give inaccurate information.

The fact that Russia held a secured meeting about this, says that they have info to hide, and/or have other intentions for their solution. Hopefully, I am wrong on that.
Basically, the nations that are willing to share info about their rockets and nukes will be the ones working together.
That pretty much means that core western nations and possibly Russia will work together.

 

[R1]

This does read a bit like a political forum. But I believe the question isn't whether we can map the NEA's but whether we should and that's political.
Nasa is already talking about visiting a NEA. Do we have the technology to asure that little nudge won't send it crashing into the earth someday in the future ?
...

I don't think it's a question of 'Should we'.


We have plenty of technology, but it helps to take it to the asteroids.

 

[TATWORTH]

Whilst earth based observation will find many of the asteroids, an infared telescope placed at a Lagrange point in the orbit of Venus is needed - why?
Being inward of the Earth's orbit, it easily pick up asteroids that are sunward of us.
Since the time to orbit is different, it will pick up asteroids that are infrequent visitors yet could still be on a collision course.
Asteroids tended to be brighter in Infrared than in visible light.

So who should pay? Perhaps it should be a joint NASA/ESA project.

 

[MeteorWayne]

Re: A couple of things

First, this is NOT a mission for international missions.
The reason is that just about ANY SOLUTION will require Rockets AND quite probably Nukes.
At the least, nukes will be needed to blow up the asteroid, divert it, or shoot another smaller asteroid at it, or just provide power or even engine.

Actually nukes are one of the less effective options for avoiding a colission. It's far better to subtly shift the orbit of an asteroid so it doesn't meet earth. A nuke is most liklely not the best way to do that.

 

[Windbourne]

Re: A couple of things

First, this is NOT a mission for international missions.
The reason is that just about ANY SOLUTION will require Rockets AND quite probably Nukes.
At the least, nukes will be needed to blow up the asteroid, divert it, or shoot another smaller asteroid at it, or just provide power or even engine.

Actually nukes are one of the less effective options for avoiding a colission. It's far better to subtly shift the orbit of an asteroid so it doesn't meet earth. A nuke is most liklely not the best way to do that.

If the asteroid is close, then nukes are probably the only way.
If it is far away, and we place a mass driver on it (basically to turn it), how are you going to power it? Nuclear power.
If we want to turn it with an engine, then we are going to use something like VASIMR, how are you going to power it? Again nuclear power.
Another solution is to blow a nuke on the side of an asteroid and change its course.

In the end, just about all solutions involve nuke, be it a bomb, an engine, or power.
And while some naysayer will scream about launching plutonium into space, giving the choice of being hit by a fairly large or launching plutonium, I suspect that ALL leaders will say launch.

 

[Davew49085]

So far the politicians seem to be satisfied that 'identifying' potential threats is all we need to do. If a threat is detected, then we will have years to come up with a 'fix.' This might be fine if asteroids, and comets were predictable BUT if they have their orbits altered by passing too close to another heavenly body, then all calculations quickly change. I for one would like to see money invested in getting ready for any and all contingincies. I don't know what the Russians are up to but they seem to be a step or two ahead of US.

 

[Couerl]

Re: A couple of things

Actually nukes are one of the less effective options for avoiding a colission. It's far better to subtly shift the orbit of an asteroid so it doesn't meet earth. A nuke is most liklely not the best way to do that.

Right, even with nukes physics still applies and energy has a tendency to follow the path of least resistance, which is toward space and not necessarily toward the rock and its inherent trajectory.. That is unless we have shaped nuclear charges, which I have never heard of. Even so, "nudging" them off course with conventional means, while good in theory may be impractical as well from what I understand. The analogy being like strapping a bottle rocket to a Volkswagen bug and trying to nudge it off the freeway.. Ain't gonna happen, not even if the bug were just a plastic model at 1/100th scale.

 

[MeteorWayne]

The political derailment has been moved to this thread:

Asteroid Protection and Politics

In the Politics Forum (subset of Free Space).

Please read the description of the Politics forum before preceeding...in fact, I'll copy it here:

Politics
An offshoot from Free Space, this is the place for discussion of local, national, and global politics. Civility is preferred, but know that discussion can be spicy like a habanero, so enter with caution (and don't rub your eyes)!

 

[SpaceTas]

Actually the search for Near Earth Objects is not solely done by NASA or even the USA. But NASA is the major player.
But these even smaller efforts also face a lack of funding. For example the funding for the Australian contribution; basically one person using the 42" Schmitt telescope at Siding Springs had it's funding dropped a few years back by the Australian government. I believe another funding source was found. NEO and other asteroids will be found with the new generation of survey telescopes SkyMapper in Australia or VISTA in Chile. But as the report and article point out none of these will achieve the mandate by USA congress.

Note: About $1million was spent on the NASA hosted launch of the film Deep Impact. Block buster meteor impact movies have made enough money to actually do the search properly. The taxes from these movies could well have been enough.

 

[MeteorWayne]

http://www.space.com/news/asteroid-thre ... 00129.html

International experts converged on Mexico City this month to discuss the best way to establish a global detection and warning network to monitor potential asteroid threats to all life on Earth.

The three-day workshop called together asteroid tracking specialists, space scientists, former astronauts and United Nations authorities, along with disaster management, risk psychology and warning communication experts...


The meeting ended Jan. 20 and was also coordinated by the Association of Space Explorers and the Regional Centre for Space Science and Technology Education in Latin America and the Caribbean (CRECTEALC...

Serious scenarios

Participants examined several hypothetical, but gravely serious, scenarios of asteroids threatening to impact Earth. They highlighted challenges a future Information Analysis and Warning Network (IAWN) would encounter.

"For the first time an international group of experts, many who would be the ones doing the actual analysis of an asteroid impact threat, came together to work through the challenges which will be faced by the international community in deciding how to respond to such an event," said Apollo astronaut, Russell Schweickart, a former chair of the ASE-NEO Committee.

"The participants grappled with scenarios ranging from a small impact, where evacuation of the impact zone is the most likely response, up to a large asteroid, where only an immediate decision to initiate a deflection campaign would prevent the disaster," Schweickart said. "The recommendations from this exercise will be integrated into the work of UN COPUOS where the nations of the world are discussing how to prevent these devastating, though infrequent, events."

Asteroid action team

IAWN represents just one of three entities being considered to deal with the NEO impact problem, outlined in a 2008 Association of Space Explorers report: Asteroid Threats: A Call for Global Response.

That ASE report was sent to the United Nations Action Team-14, a group within the UN COPUOS Scientific and Technical Subcommittee, established in 2001 to address the asteroid impact threat.

Along with IAWN, the Association of Space Explorers report also recommended setting up:

A Mission Planning and Operations Group to plan, organize, and conduct any necessary missions to threatening asteroids.
A Mission Authorization and Oversight Group to provide decision making