# Entropy! Disorder! Negative Quality!

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#### Maddad

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Beads of Doubt<br />http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2135779.stm<br /><br />We say that entropy of a closed system increases with time, but what we really mean is that the orderliness of the system decreases. If I have a nice china cabinet with Stangle dishes there are only a few ways that I can stack them. However, let my cats into the cabinet to play with them and the dishes will soon be scattered in a very disorderly manner. As I put the dishes back where they belong, I reflect that there are many more ways for the dishes to be arranged that look messy than there are for them to look orderly.<br /><br />Because objects in a system have very few orderly ways to be arranged, but many disorderly ways, it is more likely that a random rearrangement of the objects will result in an overall decrease in orderliness. As your system gets larger the number of possible disorderly combinations increases exponentially, but the number of orderly combinations increases much less. This means that it becomes more and more likely as the size of the system increases that any change will result in less order instead of more.<br /><br />By the time you get a large system, such as the 10<sup>28</sup>(10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 or ten thousand trillion trillion) or so atoms in a human body, there is almost zero chance that any random change will result in more order. Those random changes will instead result in more disorder. For instance, there is very little chance that a stiff breeze will blow your hair into a neatly brushed appearance. It is much more likely that you will soon look like the Wild Man from Borneo.<br /><br />Recognizing that systems tend to become less orderly with time, scientists define time as the changes in a system that results in less order. This works just fine for large systems such as my hair, but on a very small scale there are reasonable combinations of random changes

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#### bbrock

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I don't get the point. <br /><br />Entropy is the irreversability of any process. Orderly or dis-Orderly. Truth is, all of nature, especially the thermal processes in this universe have the property of entropy. This means there will come a time when all will be frozen solid. It also implies that the universe is not infinitely old ( had a beginning ). <br /><br />Anything else is jibberish.<br /><br />Bill<br /><br />

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#### Maddad

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Counterbalance Foundation - Entropy Definition<br />http://www.pbs.org/faithandreason/physgloss/entropy-body.html<br />"A measure of the disorder or unavailability of energy within a closed system. More entropy means less energy available for doing work."<br /><br />The point is that entropy is not irrreversible. It discusses the consequences to one definition of time when entropy reverses on small scales.

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#### bbrock

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Maddad<br /><br />Read what you are writing. Nobody is saying anything arout reversability or irreversability of Entropy ?? I can't comprehend " Irreversability of Entropy ". Entropy is the thermal property of energy. Entropy is not an entity unto itself. <br /><br />If you are saying that thermal processes are not irreversable, i.e. " Have no Entropy ", this will be one of the greatet revelations of our time. It will shake the very foundations of Physics and Thermodynamics. You may have a difficult time proving this. <br /><br />Bill

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#### Maddad

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BBrock<br />Because we normally deal with very large systems, entropy, especially thermal entropy, always moves towards more disorder. However, in very small (closed) systems this tendency sometimes reverses. The key is very small systems, and it's not going to shake up anyone except maybe a physics student during a test.

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#### kmarinas86

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Is correct to analogue "entropy" with "potential energy" ? <br /><br />Why is there always this "confusion" about entropy? Why are we taught contradicting things?

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#### Maddad

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Entropy does indeed mean increasing disorder.

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#### newtonian

##### Guest
maddad- Excellent thread. <br /><br />The problem is: entropy has more than one definition.<br /><br />The technical definition involves thermodynamics, e.g.: heat flow, and specifically the 2nd law.<br /><br />However, the general definition involves simply moving towards, or returning to, the most stable state.<br /><br />I will post in more detail later. <br /><br />However, this does involve the evolution vs. creation discussion as well as the origin of our universe by creation or by chance, etc. <br /><br />It is very important to get it right.

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