Expansions and the Multiple infinite Universe

[R1]

The Universe is indeed infinite, but it appears the nomenclature becomes<br />somewhat confusing or inapproriate.<br /><br />Reality appears to be such that the universe is definitely infinite, and that there are universes in the universe, and we do need to understand the things commonly called black holes to understand the universe.<br /><br /> I used to think that in a black hole gravity was so strong that even light could not escape, but it's becoming clear now that It doesn't happen the way I used to think: if someone in a gravitational field which is increasing to the<br />point of a black hole hole shines a flashlight at me they would see<br />the flashlight beam travel a short distance, then stop, then turn around.<br /><br />That model apparently failed, because what actually happens is that<br />when the gravitational field reaches the strong point, it's actually space<br />in the gravitaional field that begins expanding at rates that fiercely compete <br />with the speed of light.<br /><br />So wouldn't the beam of light continue its outward journey?<br /><br />I say it would, it's just that we can't notice it because the beam of light <br />no longer exists in this universe, but rather in 'that' universe, which happens<br />to be expanding at speeds that are extremely competitive to the speed of light.<br /><br />But I think it's all part of the universe; I mean those universes and this one.<br />It's just one entirely amusing universe.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[SpeedFreek]

Where did you get the idea that the universe is indeed infinite? You seem to be stating this as fact. You even say the universe is definitely infinite (which means it has been finitely defined as infinite!?).<br /><br />Whats that about universes in the universe? Where did you get that one from?<br /><br />Are you quoting from unconfirmed theories, or have you somehow confirmed these statements as fact?<br /><br />I do think we can agree that the universe is indeed amusing, though! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000">_______________________________________________<br /></font><font size="2"><em>SpeedFreek</em></font> </p> </div>

 

[R1]

infinite from the point of view of time. Inside that black hole with the flashlight beam, space is expanding at the speed of light or even faster, expanding space-time and therefore time. An observer B on the outside could not claim an end<br />to time, because in the expanding spce-time with the flashlight beam theres<br />newly made time.<br /><br /><br /><br />the black hole's rapid expansion is an inflating universe.<br />----------------------------------------------------------------------<br /> but then a universe in the center is what holds the Milky Way together?<br /><br />that puts us outside of our universe, at this point in time?<br />almost about as far from it as possible, near the spiral arm fingertips, <br />yet relatively close to its event horizon?<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

This is gibbereish.<br />The Milky Way is not at the Center of the universe (especially if it's infinite)<br /><br />We can't be outside of our universe, or we wouldn't be in it.<br /><br />What event horizon are you referring to.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[R1]

in the formation of balck hole, space-time gets quickly stretched from all the <br />gravity, that's why light is too slow to 'escape'. The light tries and tries,<br />but space stretches faster if not as fast.<br /><br />everything that fell in the hole, and its inflating(strectching) space-time,<br />was the recipe for a universe to begin with.<br /> <br /><br />no I did'nt say the Milky way is the center of the universe, <br />actually I meant its outside of the universe which formed in the black hole at its center.<br /><br />In the beginning I knew this terminology can be confusing, but it's still<br />amusing, its kind of like a twin telling the other twin before they're born that<br />theyre actually inside of a bigger human, or actually the reverse or converse or something. Like someone telling the first pregnant woman ever that theres<br />a another human inside of her.<br /> <br />by outside of our universe I meant outside of the universe within our<br />black hole, the one holding the Milky Way together. Now whether it's <br />a confirmed hole yet or not I dont know, but even if its not, theres enough<br />mass to form one. This would be our hole, the Milky Way hole. The universe within it would be the universe around which we are. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

OK, we are not communicating.... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[R1]

Im sorry, Meteor, yes its difficult when using terms like universe, etc. but please<br />take your time and I do appreciate any thoughts and comments, etc<br />from you and everyone.<br /><br />I think rewording it I came up with saying that theres universes within the<br />universe, which changes my definition of universe, its like additional dimensions<br />or something, specifically within<br />the radpid expansion of space-time in a black hole, so rapid that it must equal<br />and possibly highly exceed c . <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[why06]

I believe he is saying the universe is being stretched so much in the space around the black hole that more spac-time is flowing into its center at speeds faster than light.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>

 

[R1]

something like that, except that<br />and specifically inside the event horizon, it's not that space-time is flowing into,<br />but rather like you said 'stretched so much'<br />in fact the stretching is a process , a 'growth' process and at a rate<br />so fast that light can never reach the edge to come back out.<br /><br />this is similar to discussing a beginning of time and creation of space.<br /><br />so for example black hole A has existed 10 billion years, then for the last<br />10 billion years, space-time has been stretching inside the black hole and<br />its internal size would have to be probably over 20 billion light years in<br />diameter and growing, otherwise, light would manage to escape.<br /><br />because of this , I tend to consider calling it a universe in there, it has its own<br />space and time and a whole bunch of stuff <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[six_strings]

You may need to reconsider your terminology and more carefully try to explain your thought. I think I understand what you’re trying to say though. <br />I'm a bit skeptical space-time could be <i>infinitely</i> stretched like your concept suggests...<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[lukman]

As long as there is black hole sucking in light, i dont believe light is a constant and we cant go FTL. Or perhaps the other way, as long as C is constant, i dont believe in a black hole sucking in light.<br /><br />Logic, escape velocity in black hole is />C, so, technically, anything falling into black hole should fall in a speed >C. FYI escape velocity in a neutron star is 0.5C or 150,000km/s <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[dragon04]

<font color="yellow">The Milky Way is not at the Center of the universe (especially if it's infinite)</font><br /><br />That's not entirely true. There is fair argument that depending on the "shape" of 4 dimensional space-time, that any every discrete point in the Universe is at the "center" relative to everything around it, right?<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[dragon04]

<font color="yellow">I used to think that in a black hole gravity was so strong that even light could not escape, but it's becoming clear now that It doesn't happen the way I used to think: if someone in a gravitational field which is increasing to the<br />point of a black hole hole shines a flashlight at me they would see<br />the flashlight beam travel a short distance, then stop, then turn around. </font><br /><br />No, there is ample evidence that even light is subject to the gravitational influence of a black hole.<br /><br />Gravitational lensing at least proves that a massive singularity (and even masses less than a black hole) "bends" light.<br /><br />I think in a way, the notion of light not being able to escape a black hole is a misnomer. Maybe a better way to think about it is that there are subatomic processes going on inside the event horizon of a BH that prohibit the generation of light. In other words, the mechanism by which light is produced cannot occur inside the event horizon.<br /><br />However, if you and I put a BH between one another, you may never see the beam of light I send you. Not because the BH sucks it up, but rather because it bends my light beam sufficiently to require you to be at a much greater distance to see it.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[R1]

you're right, and that was the rest of my point.<br /><br />In fact the subatomic processes you mentioned would have to be the <br />quickly stretching spacetime between the singularity and the horizon.<br /><br />this process of fast stretching is what prevents the beam of light and anything slower from reaching out past the horizon. The hole's own newly made space-time expands at or above the speed of light<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[R1]

six_strings, I think I understand your skeptisim, but the infinity in my concept<br />cant comfortably find a stopping point inside the horizon, in other words <br />spacetime would continue to stretch on and on, I did run into the boundary<br />of the horizon, looking from the inside out, but I'm even finding it difficult to<br />think of that as a limit from the inside, the math people are already comfortable applying formulae using imaginary numbers, and the stuff inside should continue<br />the expansion of its own spacetime as long as we know its in there to cause the perturbance.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[why06]

Well Im glad finally got every thing worked out <br />-Cause that first post was very confusing. <img src="/images/icons/crazy.gif" /><br /><br />Catch ya later <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>

 

[R1]

thanks why06, I think you did understand my post, only its not so<br />much of spacetime flowing into, its more like spacetime getting quickly stretched,<br />between the singularity and its horizon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>