R
I'm confused. Isn't the problem that we need more money overall to pay at the current outlays? So on the surface we either have to reduce the amount paid out... changing amounts, changing eligibility... and/or raise more money by increasing rates in some manner... right?R1":29kievag said:If everyone across the board pays the same rate, it could be a much lower rate.
Right, except the top income group(s) doesn't pay social security the same percentage of their incomes, they pay a very, very small (very insignificant) percentage. So if everyone across the board paid the same percentage, it would be a lesser rate.phaze":1f1ke6sw said:I'm confused. Isn't the problem that we need more money overall to pay at the current outlays? So on the surface we either have to reduce the amount paid out... changing amounts, changing eligibility... and/or raise more money by increasing rates in some manner... right?R1":1f1ke6sw said:If everyone across the board pays the same rate, it could be a much lower rate.
I suppose the logical answer to your first question would be... because it's Social Security - not your own personal retirement savings fund.adrenalynn":3uq8t5q3 said:Why would the people that don't need social security need to pay more for social security?
And again: Would you rather have 1% of $100M, or 100% of $20,000?
A bit confused by your response.... this is to me, right? What is the comment about not wanting to work in reference to?adrenalynn":9la6bitw said:Not really. If people don't want to work, there's someone else that is more than happy to take their job. We don't have 100% employment rates in the US.
So let me ask you the same question since R1's cowardice shines through...
You don't need a television, car, computer, mp3 player, chair, desk, table, sofa, ... How can you live with yourself possessing these things when there are starving retirees out there. Shouldn't you be selling those things off to support them? Shouldn't you be donating your material goods to goodwill or the salvation army or something? All you need is food, water, shelter, and some basic clothing.
You want to take my "stuff" from me and give it to someone else, but not your own. What's mine is yours and what's yours is yours. How do you live with that?
phaze":1s6kkebj said:What is the comment about not wanting to work in reference to?
- you would probably find their participation in the greater economic world to be far, far less....
I'm not demanding you pay for my retirement. So why should you demand I pay for yours?Social Security doesn't require individuals to donate all their worldly possessions until every single other individual is at least at their equal level - in terms of "stuff."
You're taking the concept to an extreme that isn't realistic or desired by anyone.
Is it "fair" if I steal your television? How about your computer?I think one thing you struggle to grasp is how an evaluation of fairness is not...
It's fair to demand I pay for your retirement. So is it fair that I demand you buy me a new car? The car's less expensive, right?I'm struggling for the word here.... but an example - if there is something the government needs to do (in your opinion only), how if I pay $10.... then you pay $10... and that's fair - regardless of what our respective levels of wealth may be.
[/quote]yet not having their relative lifestyle impacted.
Oh, totally agreed. If they have wisdom of value to me, then I'm happy to employ them at standard consulting rates to impart that wisdom. I wouldn't ask for it without paying for it. That's theft too: theft of intellectual property.vladdrac":222wo9vy said:Long ago the elderly were valued for their wisdom.
Although I think I explained it as I continued, you misinterpreted the meaning. What I mean is those individuals would participate less in the economy. They would have less income to spend outside of saving for their retirement.adrenalynn":22tev05x said:- you would probably find their participation in the greater economic world to be far, far less....
Well... one simple reason is that retirement has been a good way to clear the workforce and make way for a new generation of workers. Probably some benefits for national productivity, as well.rubicondsrv":1lnqk890 said:retirement is not a right......
for most of history people worked for almost their entire lives, the concept that one should be "retired" on the dole for decades is ridiculous...
Most retirees are very capable of working, why should i subsidize their decades long holiday.
ss/medicare can be quite easily "fixed" by raising the eligibility age as such that most people don't ever collect......that is how it was when originally set up.....
no extra taxes required........
phaze":1s3169ji said:Well... one simple reason is that retirement has been a good way to clear the workforce and make way for a new generation of workers. Probably some benefits for national productivity, as well.
Really though... I hope you guys get out there and push REAL HARD for the abolishment of Social Security and chastise the lazy 65+ crowd! That'd fantastic.
You like in a nation that has taxes.phaze":2zzqf92s said:You did this in a nation that DOES have a Social Security system...
I had an argument with my sister recently about this. I find it repugnant that some feel that its societies obligation to support people whom are eldery retirement.rubicondsrv":ljo9jxut said:phaze":ljo9jxut said:Well... one simple reason is that retirement has been a good way to clear the workforce and make way for a new generation of workers. Probably some benefits for national productivity, as well.
Really though... I hope you guys get out there and push REAL HARD for the abolishment of Social Security and chastise the lazy 65+ crowd! That'd fantastic.
you do not have a right to a job......
using tax money to pay people to sit around for 20-30 years is insane
Perhaps we should just euthanize all those useless old people who are physically incapable of working any longer, rather than subjecting you to the trauma of having to having to pay more in taxes in exchange for living in a civilized world? :roll:rubicondsrv":3b8496jq said:retirement is not a right......
for most of history people worked for almost their entire lives, the concept that one should be "retired" on the dole for decades is ridiculous...
Most retirees are very capable of working, why should i subsidize their decades long holiday.
ss/medicare can be quite easily "fixed" by raising the eligibility age as such that most people don't ever collect......that is how it was when originally set up.....
no extra taxes required........
Oddly enough, I should have more than enough on my own retirement savings to enjoy a fairly decent retirement at the age of 63 without using any government cheese. Granted, it cost me in my younger days. You know, couldn't by that BMW but rather put an extra 500 to 1000 away in CD's and Treasuries and other investments. You know, planning for my glory days.crazyeddie":160khxbk said:Perhaps we should just euthanize all those useless old people who are physically incapable of working any longer, rather than subjecting you to the trauma of having to having to pay more in taxes in exchange for living in a civilized world? :roll:rubicondsrv":160khxbk said:retirement is not a right......
for most of history people worked for almost their entire lives, the concept that one should be "retired" on the dole for decades is ridiculous...
Most retirees are very capable of working, why should i subsidize their decades long holiday.
ss/medicare can be quite easily "fixed" by raising the eligibility age as such that most people don't ever collect......that is how it was when originally set up.....
no extra taxes required........
"Compassionate conservative".......most profound oxymoron ever!
how about they save their own money???crazyeddie":2ncks1t6 said:[
Perhaps we should just euthanize all those useless old people who are physically incapable of working any longer, rather than subjecting you to the trauma of having to having to pay more in taxes in exchange for living in a civilized world? :roll:
!
Years ago, when I owned a cataering company, one of my accounts was in the same building of a food distribution center for government assistance. I was floored with what kind of people were here, getting tax payer funded hand outs. Some pulling up in brand new Cadillacs, Lexus, BMW's and wearing $200 Nike Air Jordans and $1,000 neck chains. Yes, these type of people getting government assistance because they are spending what money they have on anything OTHER THAN FODD!rubicondsrv":2joshhyl said:how about they save their own money???crazyeddie":2joshhyl said:[
Perhaps we should just euthanize all those useless old people who are physically incapable of working any longer, rather than subjecting you to the trauma of having to having to pay more in taxes in exchange for living in a civilized world? :roll:
!
it is actually not hard to amass significant savings over several decades......frankly most "poor" people got that way by their own choice....
you do not need a new car or tv ect........
contrary to popular belief you do not need to have car payments, or cable tv......
This attitude ignores both reality and human nature.rubicondsrv":4wveh42b said:how about they save their own money???
it is actually not hard to amass significant savings over several decades......frankly most "poor" people got that way by their own choice....