Firearms on spacecraft

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ambrous

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I just read that Leonov on Voskhod2 had a pistol on broad to "protect against wild animals" upon landing. Was this a common practice to care firearms on either Soviet or US spacecraft? (or Chinese for that matter)
 
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trailrider

Guest
"I just read that Leonov on Voskhod2 had a pistol on broad to 'protect against wild animals' upon landing. Was this a common practice to care firearms on either Soviet or US spacecraft? (or Chinese for that matter)"<br /><br />I can't answer that question for a fact. Since the Russian (Soviet at one point in history) spacecraft aren't that controllable as to where they land, and since they are designed to land on solid earth, rather than in the oceans (Mercury, Gemini, Apollo) or on a runway (Shuttle), it probably makes some sense. <br /><br />Whether Leonov was allowed/required to carry the pistol, or whether he did so against regulations (I doubt it), it would have made some sense, given the potential for encountering wolves, bears, etc., where they were likely to land. <br /><br />Even though the CEV will be capable of landing on solid ground, given the way our recovery forces will probably be deployed and even contingencies, I doubt it will be necessary or desireable to be packin' iron. It would mean setting up a security checkpoint, and I can't see the astronauts having to remove the boots on their pressure suits to get through the metal detectors. Of course, since these would be crewpersons, they could be given waivers, or sworn in as U.S. Marshals. So I don't see that coming up. Unless, of course, we anticipate running into Romulans, Klingons or possibly Terrans "of other ideological inclinations" on the Moon! But anything is possible... <br /><br />"Go ahead! Make my day, Captain!"<br />"Phasers on stun, Mr. Spock!"<br /><br />Ad Luna! Ad Aries! Ad Astra!
 
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askold

Guest
If your concern is accidental discharge of the gun, there's not much to worry about if you keep the gun unloaded during flight - load the firearm after landing.<br /><br />It's very unlikely that a bullet will explode just sitting in a box. And, even it it did, it would be like a firecracker going off - the bullet would have no significant velocity.
 
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josh_simonson

Guest
A gun is a great survival tool, both for protection (though unlikely) and in getting food if there is a long period before extraction. Military pilots are armed in case they land on enemy land, and likely these early flights were provisioned much like a military aircraft. Perhaps 'wild animals' includes dirty capitalists attempting to steal the people's technology were it to land on neutral/enemy territory.
 
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bpcooper

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Yes, it is correct. Every Russian capsule from then right through to today has a pistol onboard to protect against wild animals or intruders should the capsule land off course. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>-Ben</p> </div>
 
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JonClarke

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US atsronauts also faced the possibility of an unscheduled landing in a remote area, and a couple did come down well and truly away from the recovery area. The crews carried out jungle and desert survival training. Whether they were armed I am not sure, I have never read they did.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
 
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josh_simonson

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I think if the shuttle had to land in the jungle, they'd be dead anyways from coming down at a 30' angle at 400mph. There are only a few airstrips long enough to land the shuttle and other than that a water landing is probably their only (slim) hope of surviving the landing.
 
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najab

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><i>...other than that a water landing is probably their only (slim) hope of surviving the landing.</i><p>A water landing would be fatal. No questions asked.</p>
 
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lampblack

Guest
Sort of puts an entirely new spin on the phrase "rocket shot," eh? <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>
 
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CalliArcale

Guest
If my recollection is correct, EVERY Soviet/Russian manned spaceflight has carried a pistol as part of the standard equipment. This was intended for protection against wild animals, and possibly enemy soldiers if they came down far offcourse. (One mission, I think it may have been the aborted Soyuz 10A, landed far enough east that the crew feared they had landed in China, which was not at the time friendly to the USSR.)<br /><br />I do not recall reading of firearms on any American mission. They may have been deemed irrelevant and an unneccesary hazard. (One more explosive device on board the spacecraft.) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>
 
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bpcooper

Guest
They did, in fact, land about a mile inside China. The Soviets performed an airlift by helicopter and had the capsule and crew out before the Chinese even knew they had landed. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>-Ben</p> </div>
 
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trailrider

Guest
Hmmm! Wonder what caliber and model pistola they were packin'?<br /><br />If you carried a gun to Mars (don't know why you'd want one...unless we REALLY find life), would you have to change the quote to, "Go ahead...make my sol!" ????<br /><br />Ad Luna! Ad Aries! Ad Astra!
 
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earth_bound_misfit

Guest
Isn't there some sort of ban of weapons in space? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>
 
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scottb50

Guest
From what I have seen here I hope there is.<br /><br />I see no reason to take a battleship to the moon or Mars. Star Trek is good, don't get me wrong, but I seriously doubt we face many threats, at least until we have a lot of people out there. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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CalliArcale

Guest
Yes, there is a ban on space-based weapons. However, a pistol might not count. It's not very useful in an ASAT (anti-satellite) or attack role, but could be vital for protecting a returned crew from wild animals.<br /><br />That said, there HAVE been more serious weapons in space. The Soviets definitely tested ASAT guns (from Almaz), although the conclusion seems to have been that the concept wasn't really worth pursuing. More notably, the late-80s Polyus (a prototype of which was launched on the first Energia launch) was ultimately intended as an offensive spacecraft, although even by the time the prototype launched, it was already suffering from politics and likely to be cancelled. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>
 
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dobbins

Guest
A mere pistol won't do you any good against an Illudium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator.<br />
 
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earth_bound_misfit

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I suppose "based" is the operative word there.<br /><br />Speaking of operative, I bet my bottom dollar (and only <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) that DoD has some black projects up there that do more than watch and listern. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>
 
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darkenfast

Guest
This subject came up on another forum, and I'll toss in the two cents I did there. The two main logical reasons for a firearm would be for defense against wild animals (the most likely candidate would be wild dogs), or if you came down in a seriously primitive area where you might have problems with the locals trying to steal everything on the vehicle and/or deciding to hold you hostage. Given the technology of today's communications and SAR capabilities, the odds of needing a firearm for astronauts is fairly slim. If one is needed, the best candidate would be the AR-7 (I think it's still in production). This is a clever .22 survival rifle that takes down to stow in it's own waterproof and floating stock. It weighs two and a half pounds, and was originally intended to meet an Air Force requirement for a survival rifle. While I like guns just fine, they probably are not worth taking along in this situation.
 
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shyningnight

Guest
No space program would inflict the AR-7 on it's astronauts as a survival tool... The AR-7 is a fine example of a well thought out design with tremendous potential that was constructed by blind monkeys. <br />I was a gunsmith for 15 years, and I never met an AR-7 that functioned properly and accurately enough to be used for small game.<br />Too bad too, because the AR-7 is a nice handy package size!<br /><br />As for that Soviet survival gun in the picture;<br />(Neat!).<br />It appears to be a modified single shot target pistol, with a changable barrel and a folding or removable stock. Very clever, actually.<br />If I were asked to come up with the most flexible, useful, and LIGHT weight survival arm I could think of, I'd probably use several of those concepts (short barrel, single shot for reliability, replaceable barrel, removable stock...).<br /><br />Paul F.
 
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darkenfast

Guest
Never having owned an AR-7, I had not realized the production quality was so bad. I do know it's been made by various small companies over the years. The 22/410 combo is catalogued by Springfield Armory as the M-6 Scout. The upper barrel is either .22 rimfire or .22 Hornet, over a .410 shotgun barrel.
 
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