Fresh look at dwarf planet Ceres

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green_meklar

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Well, I would hardly have imagined Ceres as having a flat surface, considering how many impacts it must have survived and its relatively low gravity. So I'm not at all surprised at this. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>________________</p><p>Repent! Repent! The technological singularity is coming!</p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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That's a very dangerous place out there, I would expect it to look as battered as any Main Belt asteroid.<br />I wonder what the basis is for the expectation that it contains so much water? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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Boris_Badenov

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<font color="yellow"> I wonder what the basis is for the expectation that it contains so much water? </font><br /> <br />I believe it is from spectrographic study done by the Hubble.<br /><br />http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/newsdesk/archive/releases/2005/27/text/ <br /> <br /> I know the VLA has bounced radar off it also. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>
 
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vonster

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interesting thing about water in space:<br /><br />if any part of the asteroid belt represents a larger body from the early ages of the solar system .. <br /><br />and if that body had any significant water content ... and the body was destroyed by collision or other heat-generating means ...<br /><br />wouldnt some large quantities of that liquid water take on a spherical shapes after the collision? ie possibly as large as ceres or larger<br /><br />much of it would vaporize or spray off into what would become smaller bodies of ice .. but if enough remained cohesive .. is it possible that this is what formed ceres .. <br /><br />.<br /><br />
 
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MeteorWayne

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Thanx for the reference, "Boris". I did not recall that, and I get Nature!<br />Now the next question is, how was the density of Ceres estimated? We've never been close enough with a spacecraft for measurements, and it has no satellite.<br />I soppose some some complicated measurements and math of interactions with Jupier are possible... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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I would think that the water would be vaporized in any collision, and with no gravitationally large object around it would dissapate in the interplanetary space, though some might be captured by nearby bodies.<br />That's just speculation on my part, though. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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To answer my own mass question...<br /><br />"We present the results of work concerning the exploitation<br />of the observations of asteroids made by<br />Hipparcos, in addition to ground-based observations,<br />to determine the mass of (1) Ceres from its perturbations<br />on the orbits of 4 asteroids." <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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vonster

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>I would think that the water would be vaporized in any collision, and with no gravitationally large object around it would dissapate in the interplanetary space, though some might be captured by nearby bodies<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />yes, it would seem that we can imagine a direct hit on a sizable planet / planetoid that would vaporize all the water<br /><br />however i read an article recently on simulations done of planetary collisions. one of the main conclusions was, that it seemed the majority of collisions (especially in early planetary system formation) would be 'glancing blows':<br /><br />that the majority would rather shear off large amounts of mass from the smaller body, than they would vaporize the matter<br /><br />i wish i could find it .. there was a nice animation<br /><br />anyway in this case, the body that could have produced ceres would have been a smaller body "sheared" apart by the larger mass / gravitation of the larger body ..<br /><br />hence (possible?) that large quantities of water suddenly released into space, some of which could have relatively quickly formed a spherical shape and frozen.<br /><br />hence ceres. <br /><br />if there were other spherical frozen remains of varying sizes, they may still be there undiscovered .. or may have been further destroyed / assimilated in collisions<br /><br />also speculation on my part, but plausible. unless someone can think of a physics-based reason why this is not possible.<br /><br />.<br />
 
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Boris_Badenov

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<font color="yellow"> hence (possible?) that large quantities of water suddenly released into space, some of which could have relatively quickly formed a spherical shape and frozen. </font><br /><br />With Ceres low gravity, anything that gets knocked off floats away. With its distance to the Sun, any water near the surface or that gets ejected from an impact will be caught by the Solar Wind & pushed towards the outer Solar System. Any water on Ceres is undoubtedly several kilometers or more below the surface. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>
 
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