Fusion in a black hole?

[alokmohan]

Degenation of electrons is a very useful thought in this context.So learn something about degeneration of electrons.http://physics.science-tips.org/

 

[enigma10]

Yes. One in the same really, as is neutron degeneracy. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"<font color="#333399">An organism at war with itself is a doomed organism." - Carl Sagan</font></em> </div>

 

[weeman]

Yes, I am not 100% knowledgable on this subject. <br /><br />The article does say that if a star's mass was above the 1.4 limit, then electron degeneracy pressure would not be able to withstand its own gravity, and it creates a neutron star or blackhole. <br /><br />So what determines if it becomes a neutron star or blackhole? Isn't there a Chandrasekhar limit for neutron stars to become blackholes? <br /><br />My statement in my pervious post about the molecular packing of neutrons, is kind of what I had learned in my astronomy class last year. It's because fusion no longer occurs in a neutron star, so many scientists were perplexed for many years as to how a neutron star stays stable against its own gravity.<br /><br />Anyways, thanks for the article, I always want to learn more on this subject <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000">Techies: We do it in the dark. </font></strong></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>"Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.</strong><strong>" -Albert Einstein </strong></font></p> </div>

 

[chesh]

The problem is this. Fusion of hydrogen or light elements takes place under pressure of gravity and great heat in stars. That same process is NOT found inside of a black hole. No one knows what takes place inside of a BH as nothing much escapes to detect. No fusion has been seen around a black hole, either.<br /><br />One has to visualize what is going on. That is an acceptable way of explaining the process.<br /><br />On the surface of a neutron star, fusion takes place when enough mass collects. These energetic X-ray bursts on the surfaces of NS have been seen. Those have not been seen around BH.<br /><br />A particle or mass can shed radiation energy as it enters into the deep gravitational field just outside of the BH's event horizon, but infalling matter will not fuse because it's infalling, not being compressed. The conditions for fusion do not exist there, at all.<br /><br />It's unlikely that fusion has been seen near a black hole due to its gravity. Fusion on the surface of a NS is probably the case, altho not directly detected. Yet.

 

[six_strings]

Hey!<br />No, I haven't been in a black hole Alokmohen <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />I've been following the thread, I just don't have that much confidence in my novice understanding of physics that I could contribute much to what has been posted...<br />(Otherwise I wouldn't have asked)<br /><br />I am grateful for the responses and mind candy.<br /><br />Thanks! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

The tIdal forces rip you much before You go in the black hole.It will happen when you slightly descend in the event horizon.You dont know what happened to the poor Arnold ,valet of Kip Thorne.

 

[dragon04]

<font color="yellow">I fail to understand how fusion is possible in degenerated matter.Surely you know what is degenerated matter.</font><br /><br />Yes. I know what degenerate matter is. Or perceived to be. That wasn't my point. But realy weird things probably happen beneath the Planck limit considering the energies involved.<br /><br />We can model what happens outside that limit, but I don't think it's unfair to say that we don't know the possible particle interactions <b>inside</b> it.<br /><br />Is there a most fundamental particle that no energy or gravity can force to fuse?<br /><br />I'm not even speculating that such a thing is possible. I was just stating that beneath the Planck Limit, we don't know what's happening.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

Inside black hole what will fuse to what?Everything is quark inside.

 

[weeman]

I agree with you 100% Alok, I think this is the end of the discussion <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000">Techies: We do it in the dark. </font></strong></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>"Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.</strong><strong>" -Albert Einstein </strong></font></p> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

Occasionally, when a star explodes, its field of gravity will cause the star's remains to collapse in upon itself in a world-shaking cascade of unstoppable force and motion. http://media.www.dailylobo.com/media/storage/paper344/news/2007/02/22/Culture/Local.ManMade.Black.Holes.Could.End.The.World-2736563.shtml<br /><br />With relentless and self-destructive inertia, such implosions will then continue inward until the atoms they're made up of crumple and cave in. If a star is large enough ­- at least three times the size of our sun - it may continue imploding until it becomes so dense, it ceases to be at all. It starts to be something else, nothing else - a black hole. <br /><br />"Black holes, as we understand them today, comprise almost entirely empty space," physicist Jim Al-Khalili wrote in Black Holes, Wormholes & Time Machines. "In fact, they are literally holes in space, inside which the properties of space and time are completely altered."<br /><br />In a black hole, there is only gravity, rushing everything nearby and everything inside to a single unseen point of unbearable density. Any star or asteroid, or anything that comes too near a black hole, has its every atom torn into microscopic shreds, instantaneously rearranged and compacted, and perhaps - some scientists suggest - whisked away to another place, in another form. <br /><br />In the Milky Way, it's estimated that there are more than 10 million black holes, hidden among the darkness between stars. At the Milky Way's center, scientists say there is what is called a "supermassive black hole," a black hole as many as tens of billions of times larger than our sun. A black hole around which our entire 400-billion-star galaxy revolves. There are even some black holes that move, propelled through space by the force of exploding stars, quietly dev

 

[alokmohan]

Added for digression.Dont mi nd.Google sends me alert and I pass on.

 

[alokmohan]

But never forget degeneration of matter .Its most vital thing for formation of white dwarf and all.

 

[alokmohan]

When scientists started seeing white dwarfsnEddinton noted thatit is 61000 times as dense as platinum.At that time we didnot know the why .Not until defeneratio becme known,courtesy Fowler.

 

[alokmohan]

You might like to see Hawkins journey.Stephen Hawking, the British cosmologist, Cambridge professor and best-selling author who has spent his career pondering the nature of gravity from a wheelchair, says he intends to get away from it all for a little while.<br /><br />Skip to next paragraph <br />Enlarge This Image<br /> <br />Paul Hilton/European Pressphoto Agency<br />In a warm-up for a trip to space, Stephen Hawking is to take a zero-gravity flight on a plane in April. <br />On April 26, Dr. Hawking, surrounded by a medical entourage, is to take a zero-gravity ride out of Cape Canaveral on a so-called vomit comet, a padded aircraft that flies a roller-coaster trajectory to produce periods of weightlessness. He is getting his lift gratis, from the Zero Gravity Corporation, which has been flying thrill seekers on a special Boeing 727-200 since 2004 at $3,500 a trip.<br /><br />Peter H. Diamandis, chief executive of Zero G, said that “the idea of giving the world’s expert on gravity the opportunity to experience zero gravity” was irresistible.<br /><br />In some ways, this is only a prelude. Dr. Hawking announced on his 65th birthday, in January, that he hoped to take a longer, higher flight in 2009 on a space plane being developed by Richard Branson’s company Virgin Galactic, which seeks to take six passengers to an altitude of 70 miles.<br /><br />Dr. Hawking says he wants to encourage public interest in spaceflight, which he believes is critical to the future of humanity.<br /><br />“I also want to show,” he said in an e-mail interview, “that people need not be limited by physical handicaps as long as they are not disabled in spirit.”<br /><br />Coming at a time when human spaceflight is at a crossroads, his trip into space is likely to shine a giant light on the burgeoning and hopeful industry of space tourism.<br /><br />NASA has redesigned the space program around finishing the International Space Station and sending people to the Moon again and then to Mars, much to the unhap

 

[nexium]

chesh typed "have not been seen around a BH."<br />That may be because we have identified only one BH within 30,000 light years, but thousands of closer neutron stars. Neil

 

[alokmohan]

Chesh can contact Kip Thornes book,he will know many trips to black hole.

 

[alokmohan]

Original poster missing.

 

[six_strings]

Yes Alokmohan, what can I do for you? <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

SIX STRINGS ,At the moment keep the thread alive.Have you read Kip Thornes book?Or at lest see the web .So instructive.

 

[six_strings]

Nah, haven't read Kip Thornes book... Have read all your links here though, very fascinating and strange <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

In the first chapter he gines a imaginary trip to black holes giving a running commentary of science .I give more in next post.

 

[chesh]

"That may be because we have identified only one BH within 30,000 light years, but thousands of closer neutron stars."<br /><br />This link shows that Cygnus X-1 is only 8,000 years distant. Other BH's have also been found, and distance is not necessarily an objection to their study and findings of their characteristics.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cygnus_X-1<br /><br />

 

[alokmohan]

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.nl.html?pid=22078In a series of landmark observations gathered over a period of four months, NASA's Swift satellite has challenged some of astronomers' fundamental ideas about gamma-ray bursts (GRBs), which are among the most extreme events in our universe. GRBs are the explosive deaths of very massive stars, some of which eject jets that can release in a matter of seconds the same amount of energy that the sun will radiate over its 10-billion-year lifetime. <br /><br />When GRB jets slam into nearby interstellar gas, the resulting collision generates an intense afterglow that can radiate brightly in X-rays and other wavelengths for several weeks. Swift, however, has monitored a GRB whose afterglow remained visible for more than 125 days in the satellite's X-ray Telescope (XRT). <br /><br />Swift's Burst Alert Telescope (BAT) detected the GRB in the constellation Pictor on July 29, 2006. The XRT picked up GRB 060729 (named for its date of detection) 124 seconds after BAT's detection. Normally, the XRT monitors an afterglow for a week or two until it fades to near invisibility. But for the July 29 burst, the afterglow started off so bright and faded so slowly that the XRT could regularly monitor it for months, and the instrument was still able to detect it in late November. The burst's distance from Earth (it was much closer than many GRBs) was also a factor in XRT's ability to monitor the afterglow for such an extended period. <br /><br />The slow fading of the X-ray afterglow has several important ramifications for our understanding of GRBs. "It requires a larger energy injection than what we normally see in bursts, and may require continuous energy input from the central engine," says astronomer Dirk Grupe of Penn State University, University Park, Penn., and lead author of an international team that reports these results in an upcoming issue of the As